Thursday, May 12, 2011

Open Thread

The previous 'Open Thread' appear to be malfunctioning by posting each comment twice. I am starting a new one to see if that solves the problem.

I omitted to mention earlier that a new feature has been added to the 'Recent Comments' box. Near the top there is an icon of two people. If you click on it, you will see a list of the users who have made the last twenty-five comments. If you then tick the white box to the left of the user's name, the recent comments of that particular user will be featured. You can then open them all with the 'expand all' option, or open them one by one by clicking on the plus sign.

If you want to do a search for older comments, click on the 'next' box and comments 26-50 will display. Click again and 51-75 will appear. And so on. The same search facility is available inside each twenty-five comment block.

5,000 comments:

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Subramanian. R said...

Veda Parayanam:

Eduardo Linder:

(the author was a resident of Sri Ramanasramam for 14 years in 1980s/1990s.)

Aradhana 2005, of Mountain Path.

The Vedas are considered the highest revelation and authority in Hinduism. Orthodox philosophical systems and religious authorities in India acknowledge their absolute truth and validity for all time, and revere them as the ultimate authority in any controversy. No human source can be attributed to them and they are considered to be
of divine origin, revealed to the rishis of ancient times. The Vedas were a strictly oral tradition and among pundits today, it is Brahma Rishi Vyasa who is considered to be the 'compiler' of the four extant texts (Rig, Yajur, Sama and Atharvana). For thousands of years, the four were chanted solely without being written down. The term 'sruti' (meaning 'what is heard') is used to refer to these holy texts which ultimately communicate the nature of Absolute Truth in the metaphysical sphere. Sound emanates as 'the Word' (nama) and can be said to precede rupa (form). The beginning of the Gospel of St. John states this truth in a similar manner.

The vibration which is generated by the holy sounds is spiritual in nature and counters the dark forces of inert matter in an effort to uplift creation. The universal mantra AUM, now known though the world, is the essential spiritual vibration of the universe. Sanskrit, the language of the Vedas, is said to have been revealed and it is claimed that the sound that form its 50 letters and perfect grammar are quite unique. Even Western philologists study it as a great revelation in the course of human history.

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

Veda Parayana:

Eduardo Linder:

continues......

There is a school of research today which refutes the notion that Sanskrit originated in Central Asia or the Caucasus and was transported to India during the 'Aryan invasion'. This idea was propounded in the late nineteenth century by Western philologists, some of whom had never visited India. It is currently argued that Sanskrit was indigenous and that its texts go back several thousand years. European languages quite possibly developed from Sanskrit and not the reverse.

A great many hymns, ceremonies and philosophical matters are contained in the Vedas, the principal sections of each Veda being Samhita
(hymns), Brahmanas (ceremonies), and Aranyakas (philosophical treatises). The Upanishads are usually contained in the last section, known as 'forest dialogues', since they were imparted by Rishis mostly living in forest ashrams.

The highest philosophical thought in India is revealed in the Upanishads, of which 108 are extant today. Of these 10 major Upanishads are widely studied and known. Sri Sankara's commentaries on these texts from the eighth century A.D. are available to scholars and are considered one of the pillars of the last school of philosophy to emerge i.e Advaita Vedanta. The portion of the Vedas referring to 'knowledge' is called Jnana kanda, while the portion that deals with rituals and sacrifices is termed karma kanda. It is generally agreed that a spiritual seeker must first purify himself through a selfless process of karma, according to his dharma and that he can only then pass on to Jnana kanda.

Today the Rig and Yajur Veda are the most commonly known and chanted, followed by the Sama Veda. The Atharvana Veda is slowly disappearing. The Rig Veda is the 'root' Veda and contains many hymns to various gods of the Hindu pantheon including Indra, Rudra, Sarasvati, Vishnu, etc., The other
Vedas contain many mantras from the Rig Veda.

The Yajur Veda has two well known derivatives that are chanted today,
the Sukla and Krishna (White and Black), dealing mostly of the Veda known as chamakam, namakam, rudram, etc., are used in pujas. Participants often know these sections by heart. The Krishna Yajur Veda consiss of 44 prashna (chapters) which in turn are divided into 7 kandas (major divisions) in the Samhita, 28 in the Brahmana, divided into 3 ashtakas (including 3 prashnas called katakam) and 10 in the Aranyaka. In this last section the final 4 chapters are Upanishads.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

Veda Parayanam:

Eduardo Linder:

continues......

The chanting style of the Sama Veda is very melodious and is reminiscent of the Gregorian chant in the Christian monastic tradition,

To this day, the Vedas are passed down from generation to generation, from a Brahmin teacher to a male Brahmin student in a continuous lineage from its originators, the great Brahma Rishis. In fact a young body when inititated during the upanayanam or 'sacred thread ceremony' is given is gotra, or lineage, which links him to the great sages like Vasisha and Viswamitra. The Gayatri mantra is imparted at this time and should be repeated 108 times daily during the sandhya (junctures of the day) - sunrise, noon, and sunset. This mantra appears in all four Vedas and was considered to be very secret. In fact, traditionally the Vedas were not to be heard by non-Brahmins. Formerly this was strictly observed and the purity of the tradition was maintained but during the twentieth century, especially after independence from Britain, when Hindu social laws and customs changed considerably, secrecy was no longer maintained to such an extent.

continued......

hema ravi said...

R.Subramanian,

"In fact, traditionally the Vedas were not to be heard by non-Brahmins. Formerly this was strictly observed and the purity of the tradition was maintained but during the twentieth century, especially after independence from Britain, when Hindu social laws and customs changed considerably, secrecy was no longer maintained to such an extent"

This is not true.It is only chanting that requires all the special care in terms of purity of intonation and pronounciation-this is to be done by the Brahmins.All others can listen to it and were not kept away from it.
Further this has been the wisdom of all Sages and this includes Sri Bhagavan as well!This has nothing to do with any social status or Law as stated in that article.

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Veda Parayana:

Educrdo Linder:

continues......

The school where a young boy is sent, the Veda Patasala, is run even today on the ancient system of gurukula, where the boy is given over to the guru by his parents for all further study. It is a rigorous course of training, where 7 year old boys (some start younger) start their lessons at 5 am. with chanting lasting for at least 8 hours a day. No doubt a prodigious memory is required. Some outstanding students can memorize an entire page within two or three readings. The course takes around 7 to 8 years for a normal student, but some take much longer and some drop out midway and take up other work or practice as priests in small temples.

On completion of his studies, a student is qualified to be called a Veda-vit or Yajur Vedi. No other subjects are usually taught at this stage, since a great deal of attention is required for accurately memorizing and correctly chanting Vedas. The prescribed religious observances are carried on by all students together with their course work in the school day.

Teaching techniques differ according to the tradition of the teacher. The following remarks will shed some light on the process. First, of course, the alphabet must be learned and here there is a difference between South and North India. In the South grantha script is used, while in North, it is devanagari, the usual Sanskrit alphabet. The Brahmanas are usually learned first since these mantras are simpler and easier for the student to grasp. The teacher recites one vakya (line) and the student repeats its twice. For a normal student 10 to 30 lines may be given, but for an outstanding student up to 500 lines. This will continue for 9 days, during which a student is expected to repeat the lesson at least 100 times per day.
Once the Samhitas are taken up, they are taught 50 padas (words) at a time. This is called a panchasati. There 2195 panchasatis in the 7 kandas of the Samhita of the Krishna Yajur Veda. There is no doubt that very strong samskaras play an important part concerning the innate ability of the student. At the level of ghanam (the most advanced chant form), one can almost be assured that samskaras from a previous life are at work, since this very exacting mode of chanting cannot be taken up by most students.

At Sri Ramanasramam the Krishna Yajur Veda was chanted twice a day when Sri Bhagavan was in the body. This tradition is carried on at His Samadhi to this day. Before the Veda Patasala was founded at Sri Ramanasramam, pundits from town would come to chant in front of Sri
Bhagavan and all accounts of His life mention that at the 5 pm. sessions of the Veda Parayana, Sri Bhagavan would often sit rock like and the silence and grace that were present would be apparent to even casual visitors. He commented that listening to the Vedas had a calming effect on the mind, which is a pre-condition for any meditation practice as well as atma vichara, His most well known method.

Today at Sri Ramanasramam, the Veda Patasala has around 20 students, (this was in 2005. The number must be more now.) and slowly the 'career' of being a pundit is regaining its former respect and status.

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Dear hema,

I have also read that Sri Bhagavan has told, as you have mentioned.
It was during Chadwick's time, when he was eager to listen, Sri Bhagavan mentioned this. However, I did not want to make my own changes in the article written by Eduardo Linder, on my own.

I agree with what you have stated.

Subramanian. R

Subramanian. R said...

Dear lakshminarayan,

I am happy with what you have said.
My email ID is g337h4@yahoo.com.
My phone No. 080 (93410 19205). I am in Banglore, India. I have no land line.

Subramanian.R

Subramanian. R said...

Veda Parayana:

Eduardo Linder:

continues......

About a hundred years ago, due to the economic conditions of the times, Brahmins had to abandon their dharma as pundits and priests and engage in worldly pursuits, usually in posts as civil servants with the British administration. They could not make a living from the traditional way of life and slowly the tradition degenerated and fewer boys were brought into a formal study of the Vedas. The situation has currently reversed and today pundits can earn a very reasonable income, as they are invited to all types of ceremonies throughout the country, including household rituals and marriage functions. Of course, many Brahmins have now totally abandoned their links with the Vedas as a modern Education in English is the standard of success in modern Indian society. Many boys are not taught the basic texts and have no knowledge of Sanskrit or religious
duties, but one still sees a few modern young men in western dress chanting happily in from of Sri Bhagavan's Samadhi, no doubt due to the influence of their parents in fostering more 'religious' and traditional way of life.

When fully qualified, a student will either continue studying rituals and become a priest, or follow further study and eventually become a pundit. This latter tradition involves chanting in more complicated modes and each additional level may take two or three years longer, depending on the ability of the student. Pundits are usually invited to special religious events at large temples or to important feasts and festivals. In Tiruvannamalai, at Arunachaleswara Temple, the main Siva temple, Veda Parayanam in the kramam mode of the Krishna Yajur Vedas is chanted for 9 days by 25 pundits during the 10 day Kartigai Deepam festival. Sama and Rig Veda are also chanted by smaller groups. In 1995, the entire Samhita in the ghanam mode was chanted in Sri Ramanasramam (Samadhi Hall) by an eminent Vedic scholar, lasting 32 days, eight hours per day. In recent years, groups of 4 to 6 pundits are occasionally invited for special parayanam, usually lasting 4 to 6 days, with some sessions lasting 2 to 3 hours, for total of 6 hours per day.

After the normal chanting called padam and moolam, the next level is termed kramam, which is still not too complicated and most good students master it. The last two modes are called jattai and ghanam are particularly difficult. The
last mode is achieved by very few
pundits. They are called ganapatins. The rules for the more complex types of chanting are given in two texts not within the Vedas, called Prataskara and Uyasa Siksha. A more detailed explanation of a mantra in different modes will be given later.

continued.....

Chakri said...

Tevijja/Trividya Sutta from Digha Nikaya recorded in 1st century BC.

A most beautiful exposition by Buddha on the chanting of the three Vedas and about caste Brahmins with wealth and sense pleasures

www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/1Digha-Nikaya/Digha1/13-tevijja-e.html

Subramanian. R said...

Veda Parayana:

Eduardo Linder:

continues.....

A fully qualified ghanapatin may continue to study Vedanga,i.e the limbs of the Veda. This includes the following six disciplines: Siksa (phonetics); Nirukta (lexicon and etymology); Kalpa (riutals); Lakshanam (grammar); Jyotisha (astrology and astronomy); and Chandas (prosody or versification).

There are different levels and specializations in all these disciplines, and major Maths, such as Sringeri and Kanchipuram, carry out tests and give certification that a certain level of knolwedge and proficiency has been achieved. Eventually a highly trained and qualified pundit becomes a well known teacher in his own right and is recognized throughout India for his erudition.

To give an idea of the level that may be reached, one can point to Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni, Sri Bhagavan's foremost devotees in the Vedic tradition. At the age of about eight, Ganapati Muni started uttering Sanskrit poetry spontaneously and eventually was given the title of Kavyakanta, which means 'one who has poetry flowing from his throat'. i.e. an extempore poet. He was also a Chaturvedi meaning he knew all four Vedas and it was later remarked by Sri Bhagavan that Ganapati Muni's memory was such that he had almost 'total recall' of all events that had occurred in the Asramam. Even at this level of erudition, Ganapati Muni recognized Sri Bhagavan was not only a Rishi but a great Rishi, i.e Maharshi and changed His name to Ramana Maharshi. (He was previously known as Brahmana Swami). Sri Bhagavan had never studied Sanskrit, yet He could utter perfect poetic composition, with such deep and terse meaning that they were considered by Kavyakanta to be comparable to the Upanishads. Throughout the rest of His life, Sri Bhagavan was consulted by great pundits from all over India, who went away convinced that Sri Bhagavan was indeed a Maharshi, Maha Rishi.

Pundits who pass their entire lives chanting the Vedas are going through a process of purification and some of them report that even in their sleep the holy utterances carry on. The audiences and sponsors of the Yagnas and other parayanams are also being purified and accumulate merit, but one can also say that the chanting benefits the entire world. One interesting fact worth mentioning is that in the purnahuti at the end of a homa, the pundit symbolically surrenders his ego into the sacred fire.

In Sri Adi Sankara's Viveka Chudamani, it is stated that it is difficult to obtain a human birth, more difficult to be born a Brahmin, more difficult still to walk the path of Vaidika Dharma in which the Vedas are chanted and still more difficult to become a perfect scholar. Yet it is pointed out that all of this is still not enough 'to attain wisdom born of experience of the Self', which is what Sri Bhagavan immediately knew and for which it is not necessary to follow the path described above.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva
Canons:

(Lesser known temples.)

nannilam - 610 105.

This temple can be reached by bus from either Kumbakonam or Tiruvarur. This temple is also called Madhu vanam. This is one of the 70 temples built by Koch Chengat Chozhan, in the style of a higher platform temples, mAdak kovil.

The Sun god and Saint Agsthya are said to have prayed to Siva here.

Siva is called Madhu veneswarar. Uma is called Madhu vana nAyaki. The tirtham (holy waters) is a tank called Brahma tirtham. There is also a Lingam on the lower level while the main deities are on the upper level. There are also shrines for Sage Agasthya and Devi on the lower level.

Saint Sundaramurti has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses in Canon 7.

********

Subramanian. R said...

Veda Parayana:

Eduardo Linder:

continues.....

One comment worth quoting with respect to the reason for the more complex types of chanting was made by the late Sankaracharya of Kanchipuram Math, Sri Chandrasekhara Saraswati, who was recognized throughout India as a saint and sage:

"Our forefathers devised a number of methods to preserve the unwritten Vedas in their original form, to safeguard their tonal and verbal purity. They laid down rules to make sure that not a syllable was changed in chanting....(and) they insured that the full benefits were derived from intoning the mantras.

"When we listen to the ghanapatin chant the ghanam we notice for intones a few words of the mantra in different ways, back and forth. It is most delightful to the ear. Similarly, in other methods of chanting like krama, jata, moola, and so on, the intonation is nothing less than stately, indeed divine." (Hindu Dharma, Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan.)

As a small example of the various methods of chanting, a simple mantra is transliterated below, giving the principal forms that are taught and chanted:

Nama somaya cha (moolam)
Nama somaya somaya cha (kramam)
Nama somaya somaya namo, nama
somaya (jattai)
Nama somaya somaya namo, nama
somaya cha-cha somaya
Namo, nama somaya cha (ghanam)

In jattai two words are joined in the chanting and each word is repeated six times, while ghanam three words are joined together and each word is repeated thirteen times. A rough guide to the sequence in which the ghanam is chanted is given below:

1-2-2-1-1-2-3-3-1-1-2-3-2-3-3-2-2-
3-4-4-3-2-2-3-4-3-4-4-3-3-4-5-5-
4-3-3-4-5.

There are, of course, different tones, lengths of syllables chanted, exmphasis of particular sounds and volumes uttered, ranging from faint whispers to great bellowing sounds which literally 'shake the walls'. When the chanting alternates between two groups, it is termed charchai. Ghanam can only be chanted for the Samhita portion of the Vedas. A very interesting and advanced technique of chanting is called varna kramam known only to highly qualified ghanapatins. Even though it sounds rather simple, it is very difficult as each word in the Vedas is body analyzed for its deeper significance, starting from where in the body the sound originates, how it travels up through the throat and finally how the tongue is positioned to utter the holy sound. The purpose is to maintain the purity of the chanting and it is possible to ascertain very precisely whether a pundit is chanting a specific pada correctly or not. Some eminent pundits know varna karamam for every single word in the Vedas.

This description does not of course communicate the experience of listening intently to the Vedas chanted directly, where often a state of immense peace is felt by the listener, highlighting the divine origin of these great ancient texts. Sri Bhagavan stated that merely listening to the Vedas, even without understanding them, was sufficient to purify listeners and to alter their state of consciousness to a deeper level within themselves.

concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

N. Subramanyan -
Fifty Years of Service:

(Aradhana - 2005 - Mountain Path:

A.S. Krishanmoorthy & Michael
Highburger:

For devotees and regular visitors to the Asramam, Appichi Mama is a prominent figure. On any given day, one will find him somewhere about, either in Sri Bhagavan's Samadhi Hall, or the Mother's shrine, performing abhishekam or archana, answering letters from devotees, helping devotees with prayer intentions, chanting mantras for the weekly Mahanasya, or at Vedaparayana. It is rare for a visitor to come and NOT find him there, carefully observing Asramam ceremonies with his customary dignity and faith, rites he learnt, he says, through observation and, no doubt, by Sri Bhagavan's Grace.

Background:

N. Subramanyan was born in a middle class family in Koovadu village in South Arcot District. He came to Sri Bhagavan in the early 40's to study in the Vedapatasala. At that time, the school was quite small, and informed ass there was no resident teacher. Every afternoon, at 3 pm. an instructor came from town to tutor the boys in the Vedas and in general education. The young
Subramanyan found that the demands on his time made single minded devotion to his studies difficult. If not impossible. He was expected, like others, to toe the line and take up additional duties like food preparation, setting the dining hall for meals, and serving at mealtimes. This latter chore had hidden blessings as he regularly had the opportunity to serve Sri Bhagavan. In addition, twice a day, the young Subramanyan together with the other students of the school chanted the Vedas in Sri Bhagavan's presence. Eight busy years passed in this way.

Sri Bhagavan's Mahanirvana:

In the last days of Sri Bhagavan's earthly existence, Subramanyan's long time friend, Sri Krishnamurthy (Kittu Mama), was tending Sri Bhagavan daily in what is now called Nirvana room, bringing naivedyam and tirtham (offerings from puja). As Sri Bhagavan's condition was delicate, few were allowed access. But Subramanyan was assisting Kittu, so he had the opportunity to be in close proximty to Sri Bhagavan. During the critical last days, Sri Bhagavan's physical weakness was such that He was unable to sit up in order to take tirtham and so asked Kittu Mama to pour it into His mouth, as He lay prone. Once, as prasadam was brought, Sri Bhagavan said, 'As you make the offering to my Mother's shrine, so do it to me. She is unable to eat it. Now I also unable to eat it." (The Mountain Path, October 1980.)

After Sri Bhagavan's Mahanirvana, Asramam activities were curtailed. Appichi Mama (Appichi in Tamizh means sweets. Subramanyan was fond of sweets, and so the Vedapatasala boys gave him the nickname Appichi.) took leave and began a 2 year course in Teacher's Training. He studied privately, passed his ESLC examination (8th standard), and worked in two schools. During this time, he married and started a family, eventually being blessed with four sons, Ramana Sundaram, Sriraman, Arunachalam and Nagarajan, and one daughter, Lalita.

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

N. Subramanyan -
Fifty Years of Service:

continues.....

In 1954, while working as a headmaster, Subramanyan received a letter from the Asramam. At the time Major Chadwick was urging regular performance of Sri Chakra Puja (the Devi puja still performed six times each month in Mother's shrine). As there was need for an additional Brahmin priest, Chadwick had his eye on Subramanyan to fill the position. Though already securely employed, and in spite of the pittance that was all that the Asramam could offer as salary, he took the call as coming directly from Sri Bhagavan. When he came to the Asramam that June for the summer vacation, he stayed on, leaving his position as headmaster of the school forever.

*****

Life in the Asramam was tough in those days. There were few resources and a lot of work. All were called upon to do their share.
Subramanyan found himself running many errands, making regular trips to town, working in the kitchen, doing gardening, plumbing, cleaning and even doing electrical wiring for the then new Morvi Guesthouse. And alongside, his priestly obligations! Sometimes the burden of work became too much. Once in 1961, many years after coming to live permanently in at the Asramam, Appichi Mama was in despair. 'I have come to be in Sri Bhagavan's presence and to serve Sri Bhagavan,' he thought, 'yet in reality I am spending all my time doing mundane tasks.' Just when he decided that time had come for him to leave, he had a vivid dream in which Sri Bhagavan came to him. Sri Bhagavan was returning from His walk on the Hill, but arrived not behind the kitchen as usual, but instead, He came directly to where Subramanyan was standing near Lakshmi's Samadhi. Sri Bhagavan approached him and the young priest bowed to Him and, surprisingly, found the following words coming from his own mouth: "Bhagavan, I've come to work!" Sri Bhagavan smiled, and looking straight at him and said, 'Yes, yes!' and with a kindly gesture gave His blessings.

Appichi Mama took his dream as inspired directly by Bhagavan; it dispelled his doubts about remaining at the Asramam. He never again thought of leaving and found his heart a little lighter when he faced with simple chores.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

N. Subramanyan:

Fifty Years of Service:

continues.....

Experiences with Sri Bhagavan:

The priest recounts numerous encounters with Sri Bhagavan in the kitchen and dining hall where he and Kittu Mama served food, albeit timidly at times. Sri Bhagavan noticed everything and the two youngsters knew their master set great store by the correct way of serving. They both once said, 'Serving food with the Maharshi sitting and watching us was nerve-wracking work. Everything had to be done exactly right and there He would sit, child-like, but His eyes moving everywhere in a quiet unobtrusive way. He watched the cooks and servers with vigilance.' (Mountain Path, 1980.)

Sri Bhagavan also listened to the boys' parayana. Morning and evening chanting took place near the well in summer and in the Jubilee Hall the rest of the time and Sri Bhagavan was always present, listening quietly and attentively, interrupting on occasion to correct mistakes.

Other Recollections:

In the mid-forties, the young Subramanyan was entrusted with the setting out banana leaves and water for the meals, and serving pickle. One summer evening, after Shantammal had served Sri Bhagavan His meal and the lad was serving pickle, Sri Bhagavan asked him for a second helping of buttermilk. This was not Sri Bhagavan's habit - He normally took less than others and would not ask for second helpings. But this night He had commented on the green mango pickle of which He was quite fond, saying, 'What the mother fails to do, (i.e her son to have a second helping), the pickle succeeds in doing!' With that, young Subramanyan brought more buttermilk. There were two buckets of butter milk kept in the kitchen, one sour and one sweet. Sri Bhagavan preferred the latter. Subramanyan was unaware that the two buckets had been inadvertently
interchanged and served Sri Bhagavan from the wrong one. Sri Bhagavan made no comment, but Chinnaswami was quite angry and the kitchen staff berated the boy. The priest recalls how he avoided Sri Bhagavan's glance for four days, such was his embarrassment!

Subramanyan has many stories to tell those early days and of his interactions with Sri Bhagavan. One time, when he was serving in the dining hall, a frog came hopping along, inevitably making its way towards Sri Bhagavan's meal. The lad stepped forward to prevent the creature from trespassing on to Sri Bhagavan's banana leaf. But Sri Bhagavan stopped him saying, 'Why do you do that? Let him go his own way!' Since that time, Subramnayan took this as an upadesa regarding all other creatures in the Asramam, accepting that any of them might be siddhas coming to have Sri Bhagavan's darsan. In all the years since, if a gecko (lizard) or some other creature approached Sri Bhagavan's Samadhi, the priest never interfered, reminded of that night in his youth when the frog hopped across the banana leaf of Sri Bhagavan.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

N. Subramanyan -
Fifty Years of Service:

continues....

Another scene is from early morning Parayana in the 40's. It was the sacred momth of Margazhi (mid-December to mid-January), so dear to the gods with its emphasis on early morning worship. At 4.30 am. prior to the 5 am. Vedaparayana, Sri Bhagavan, Asramites and Vedapatasala students, and guests were reciting the Tamizh PallaNdu, a prayer of praise to the Guru, invoking the Divine, and bidding that He 'lives long". Sri Bhagavan's attendant, Sivananda, enthusistically joined in the recitation but as his grasp of formal Tamizh was limited, he made several grievous errors. At first Sri Bhagavan was amused but finally He pulled up the attendant as the latter had inadvertently changed some of the text's verses of praise into curses! Sivananda did his best to follow Sri Bhagavan's advice but did not improve much even after Sri Bhagavan's numerous suggestions. In the end, the poor man felt quite mortified and ashamed of himself. However, subsequently, when the group recited verses, containing Sivananda's name, Sri Bhagavan changed them a little to give them a flattering and edifying flavor, in order to soothe the attendant's injured feelings.

Priestly Duties:

Devotees have commented on the head priest's devotion to Sri Bhagavan noticing tears of love well up in him at time during puja. Often he sings along with those offering Tamizh devotional songs before final arti. And on occasions during Sri Chakra Puja, he renders the service himself.

Likewise his gift for decorating altars is known to devotees, particularly the way he bejewels and adorns Yogamba during the nine days of Navaratri. On the sixth day, when the linga puja is enacted, many visitors come to Sri Ramanasramam as it is the only place, still doing decoration according to local tradition. (Sri Arunachaleswara Temple dispensed with it some decades ago.)

Appichi Mama learned how to decorate altars by watching the school drawing master from town who used to do it regularly. But this expert never revealed the secrets of his skill, always doing his decoration behind the curtains. When he stopped coming, even though Kittu was head priest, the job fell to the younger priest who had a knack for it.

Appichi Mama's many years of experience are evident. On special occasions, devotees and visitors marvel at the adornments of Sri Ramaneswara Mahalingam, with its garlands of varying sizes and lengths, with flowers of a dozen colors. On Jayanti, Aradhana or Kartigai Deepam, he proceeds patiently and painstakingly until Sri Bhagavan's Mahalingam looks as inspiring and imposing as that in the ancient Arunachaleswara Temple on its festival days.

continued......

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian,
Appichi mAmA-what an endearing name!I have not heard of this devotee before.Thanks very much for posting.
Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

N.Subramanyan -
Fifty Years of Service:

Aradhana 2005 - Mountain Path :

continues.....

Blessings over the Years:

During his fifty years as the Asramam priest, Appichi Mama feels that the most rewarding feature of his work has been his role as intercessor for prayers and petitions made to Sri Bhagavan. In times of crisis, devotees write to the Asramam, beseeching Sri Bhagavan's intervention, either through special prayers (sankalpas) or specific pujas. The head priest is required to respond to these requests on a daily basis as part of his priestly function, making direct prayers to Sri Bhagavan on behalf of those in difficulty. The Asramam has received numerous letters from devotees down through the years reporting miraculous deliverances from their calamities. For Appichi Mama, seeing Sri Bhagavan bless His devotees repeatedly over the decades has been the greatest miracle of all, bearing witness to Sri Bhagavan's enduring presence and power, both in Sri Ramanasramam and elsewhere.

Needless to say, for Appichi Mama the memory of those early yeas has been a source of strength. To have been saturated by the radiance of Sri Bhagavan on a daily basis through all the impressionable years of his adolescence was truly a great grace. No doubt this prepared him for the vital role he plays at Sri Ramanasramam.

concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva
Canons:

(Lesser known temples.)

tiruk kondeeswaram - 609 504.

This temple is about 4 kms. from
Nannilam. This place is also called Bhilwak kAdu, the jungle of bhilwa
trees. Mother Uma is said to have come here as a cow, and when the cow dug the earth with its horns, it found a lingam bleeding due to
the horns' touch. (Mother), the cow prayed to that Siva Lingam curing the bleeding with its milk.

Siva is called Pasupathiswarar. Uma is called Shanta Nayaki. Saint Tiru Navukkarasar has mentioned this temple in 20 of his verses, 10 in Canon 4 and 10 in Canon 5.

********

Subramanian. R said...

Dreams That Changed My Life:

Shoshi Shophrony:

(Mountain Path, Aradhana 2005)

I was born in Hungary into a warm loving family. At the age of sixteen, I lost my parents and my only sister in the Holocaust. I got married very young and in 1949, we immigrated to Israel. My husband and I built a new life, a new family.

I began my yoga training in 1968, with Swami Venkatesananda. I learned hatha yoga (physical yogic exercise) and raja-yoga, the spiritual and philosophical part with meditation. I loved my teacher very much and he inspired me to become a yoga teacher myself. Indeed, I continue to teach yoga to this very day. In the course of time, I left behind the physical part and I now teach only the spiritual yogic approach to life with meditation and self inquiry in voluntary work.

On a beautiful afternoon of the summer of 1972, things began to happen; the very first dream, unexpected and surprising. I was lying on the hot sand at the seashore, near Tel Aviv, with my husband and our two sons. I fell asleep and dreamt that I was an Indian boy walking down the street with my Indian mother. I asked her to send me to school, but she explained that we were poor and we had no money for school. Suddenly my mother stopped and pointed out at an old man walking in the opposite direction. She said to me: 'Run my son, run to him, because he can teach you far more than you could ever learn in any school!'
And so I did. I ran after the old man. Hearing my heavy breathing, the old man stopped, looked at me with a warm, loving glance and put his hand on my head.

That was it! I woke up to find myself with my family beside the sea. Everything seemed extremely strange, but as life's rhythm is very fast, the swimming, going home, preparing and eating lunch, talking -- all this caused the unusual dream to fade somewhat.

After lunch, I had a siesta and immediately felt asleep. The whole dream appeared before me again, exactly as the first time, as if seeing the same film twice. Now I became tremendously impressed, but hardly understood what the dream was to reveal. That was the beginning.

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

Dreams That Changed My Life:

continues......

From that day, I continued to dream about the loving old man without any idea who he might be, and so I referred to him as my old uncle. The man, my old uncle, came to my dreams teaching, advising, sometimes reassuring or protecting me.

He appeared and reappeared even more often around the days of the Yom Kippur War (the October War in 1973 in Middle East), at which time our elder son, Reuven, served in the army. He had been in great danger with others, and we worried very much about the fate of all. The news on the radio was often exciting and many times terrifying, but in my dreams my old uncle came comforting and consoling me lovingly. I felt that he protected not only me, but also our son, who was in danger. Indeed, how grateful we felt later on, on hearing the story of his escape 'by chance' from death.

Another prominent dream about my old uncle concerned my younger son, Rafy, who was 16 years old at that time. Rafy had asked for our permission to buy a small motorcycle - he had worked during the summer and earned the money for it. We didn't approve, explaining how dangerous are the roads were that is due to crazy drivers. We asked him to wait for two more years, by which time, he would be old enough, by Israeli law, to drive our car. But Rafy has a very strong will, when his heart is set on something, he does not give up easily. We, the parents, had a serious conflict with him. On the one hand, we knew very well how risky a motorcycle could be for a young boy, but on the other hand, we felt that forcing our veto on him was too great an interference. It was his life and not ours.

Once again, my old uncle appeared in my dreams: the three of us, my uncle, Rafy - holding a motorcycle - and I stood in the middle of a very busy street in Tel-Aviv. My uncle asked me to wait at the side, while both of them rode the bike in the heavy traffic. They began driving awfully fast and dangerously. I watched them breathlessly, quite frightened. After a while they returned with some broad smiles and my loving uncle said to me: 'I took you son into some very difficult situations. He is clever, skillful and cautious so you should allow him to buy the bike. Trust him and don't worry.'

As I woke up the next morning I felt so happy and relieved of this difficult problem. I immediately turned to my husband and said: 'I approve of the bike.' He was the only one I told about my dreams. My enthusiasm convinced him to also give his blessing concerning the motorcycle. I sincerely believe the dream helped me to remain calm and quiet each time Rafy came home late. Thank God, he never had any accident.

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

Dreams That Changed My Life:

continues......

Nearly two years had past since my first dream on the seashore. Then one day, I visited a library in a yoga center. I stood in front of a bookshelf and randomly pulled out a book. I opened it -- and nearly fainted! My loving uncle's beautiful face with a brilliant warm glance looked at me from a picture on the first page. The name at the bottom said, 'Sri Ramana Maharshi'. The book's name was Ramana Maharshi and the Path of Self Knowledge by Arthur Osborne. I began to read it and discovered the 'uncle' of my dreams is one of the greatest spiritual masters of the century!

I cannot express my feelings at the moment of this revelation. Suddenly a veil was lifted from my eyes and a new kind of perception opened in me. I felt an enormous thirst to learn every word spoken by Sri Bhagavan, to live through His teaching and to let it be made a part of me. Fortunately, I never had any doubts, as I began to study the Direct Path. I knew inside my heart that I had found my way, the purpose of my life. I became very grateful to Sri Ramana Maharshi and to my fate.

Since then, Sri Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi has walked with me hand in hand in my day to day life showing the way to Self Realization. His teaching is complete and perfect. His answers to devotees' questions are the most direct and effective clearing away every doubt or misunderstanding. There is never an
unnecessary word, nor is there ever
a missing one.

I must confess that since I found my Master and His teaching in many wonderful books, He has appeared very rarely in my dreams, but from the very first dream, I was irresistibly drawn to Him, feeling a magnetic love for Sri Bhagavan. This is something beyond logic, how dreams, books and the radiant visage of my Master, could so greatly enrich my soul. I have
never experienced anything so enlightening; and my devotion to Sri Bhagavan is the most important happening in my inner life. I love my family very deeply and I am grateful for my good fortune in having them with me. Even so, no one can compare this sort of love to the ties which bind me to Sri Bhagavan. That love exists as if on another sphere, as if I live a double life, resonating deep inside me, as a constant background music.
So deep inside that there is no distance and can never be any distance between Sri Bhagavan and me. His in my soul.

It seems to me that it is not correct to say that I came to Sri Ramana Maharshi, but rather that He came to me, first in my dreams, as an old uncle, revealing Himself to me only after two years.

What have I received from Him? Inner Peace, even during the turmoil of life, and infinite love. What have I learned? A new angle of vision, understanding the truth of the underlying oneness and unity of existence, and to know the Self, the core of Being of the whole universe.

I owe you all this, Sri Bhagavan, thank you.

concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Dakshinamurti Swami:

T.V. Venkatasubramanian & David Godman:

(Deepam, 2005, Mountain Path)

Tiruvarur Dakshinamurti Swami, a distinguished Tamizh saint, was born through the grace of Lord Arunachaleswara. The only available Tamizh biography mostly describes the miracles attributed to him, although a few of his teaching statements are also included. This article, based on the Tamizh biography, gives the important events in his life and all the teachings found there.

Sri Dakshinamurti Swami was born about 200 years ago in Kilalathur, a small village close to Tiruchy. His parents, Meenambikai and Sivachidambaram Pillai, belonged to the Karkatta Velalar community, who were traditionally land owners and cultivators. After their marriage, they went for many years without having any children. In order to get a child, they embarked on a pilgrimage that took them to many of the places that were sacred to Lord Siva, and while they were on this journey, they also observed many strict vows. During this journey, they visited Tiruvannamalai, where they spent many days worshipping Annamalaiyar and Unnamulai, performing pradakshina of Arunachala Hill and bathing in the holy waters at the foot of the Hill.

One night Lord Arunachaleswara appeared simultaneously in their dreams and told them, 'I myself will come to you and remove your mental grief. Return home.'

They were both astonished by this manifestation of grace. The following day they went to the temple, worshipped Arunachaleswara, and then returned to their village, where they continued to meditate on
Him.

Ten months later, Meenambika gave birth to a male child. Since he had been born through the grace of Arunachala, he was named 'Arunachalam'. The child soon began to display unusual traits. He never troubled anyone for food. He never cried. He was silent all the time. And he only suckled if his mother directly placed her nipple in his mouth.

While he was growing up, Arunachalam remained silent.He did not utter a single word in the first five years of his life. His parents were so distressed by this they began to pray to God to help them with this matter. To alleviate their distress, Lord Arunachaleswara appeared before them in the guise of a Saiva Sannyasin.

continued......


Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

tirup panaiyoor - 609 504.

This temple is 6 kms. to the east of Nannilam. This is the place with Sthala Viruksham (temple tree) of panai, palm tree, hence the name.

Siva is called Soundarya Nathar. Uma is called Periya Nayaki. The tirtham (holy waters) is a tank called Amritha Tirtham. The Sthala
Viruksham is palm tree as mentioned above.

Saint Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses in Canon 1 and Saint Sundaramurti has mentioned this temple in 10 of his verses. Saint Manikkavachagar has mentioned it in one line in Keerthi Tiruvahaval, line 87.

Sundaramurti has had the darshan of Siva's dance in this temple. When Karikal Chozhan was ruling his kingdom, he had great faith in the Vinayaka of this temple. Hence Vinayaka in this temple is called thuNai iruntha Vinayaka, 'the one who was always for the support'.

Saint Parasara prayed to Siva here.

There are two palm trees in the temple.

******

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Dakshinamurti Swami:

T.V. Venkatasubramanian and David Godman - Deepam 2005 of Mountain Path.

continues.....

Sivachidambaram Pillai, impressed by the appearance of the sannyasin, told him 'My son, who was born through the grace of Arunachaleswara, has remained completely dumb, even though he is five years old. I request you to make him speak.'

The monk replied: 'Let me see this wonderful child.'

He went inside the house and saw the child sitting in padmasana, absorbed in the Self.

The monk told the father, 'This child has come to you as your son to redeem your clan and many other devotees. He is not dumb at all. Speak to your child now.'

Sivachidambaram Pillai immediately asked him, 'Dear child, why do you remain with your eyes closed?'

Arunachalam replied, ' I am remaining still, (summa irukkiRen).

The monk then asked, 'Who are you that is remaining still?"

Arunachalam replied, 'You yourself are I, and I myself am you!'

The monk responded by saying, 'Satyam, Satyam (true, true)' and then he vanished completely.

As soon as they witnessed this wonder, both parents immediately realized that the child and the mysterious sannyasin were both Arunachleswara. From that moment on, they behaved very carefully with their son, conducting themselves as if they were his devotees.

His biography states that many miracles were subsequently attributed to Arunachalam, and they are described in great detail.

Many years later both his father and his mother died at the same time. After performing their funeral rites, Arunachalam left home and became a wandering Sadhu. Hereafter, we shall just refer to him as 'Swami'.

During his travels, Swami reached Tiruvottiyur where he stayed in the Samadhi shrine of Pattinathar. In the town at that time there was a mad brahmin girl who was behaving in a very appropriate way. Her father had tried all possible means to bring her back to normal, but nothing worked.

Finally, he prayed to Siva in the Tiruvottiyur temple and said, 'Cure my daughter of her disease within three days. If you don't, I myself will poison her and kill her.'

That night Siva appeared in the brahmin's dream and said, 'O devotee, there is a Jnana Siddha, a Jivan mukta, wandering naked around the Samadhi of Pattinathar. Take your daughter to him. When he comes out of his inner absorption in the Self and casts his glance on your daughter, her madness will be cured completely.'

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Dakshinamurti Swami:

continues....

The brahmin forcibly took his daugher to the Samadhi shrine of Pattinathar, where he found Swami in nishta. Some time later, Swami came out of his Self absorption and looked at the girl, who immediately became normal. Showing her gratitude, she walked around Swami and prostrated to him.

Then she addressed him, saying, 'Lord! As a result of your glance, the bodily ailment has left me. Please now bestow your grace so that the disease of birth is also removed.'

Swami responded by saying, 'If you renounce the concepts of jagat (world), jiva (individual) and para (God), which are all known, and remain as the consciousness that knows them, the disease of samsara will cease.'

The girl returned home, shut herself in a room and meditated continuously on the Upadesa she had received. On the eighth day, she attained Videha Mukti, (liberation at the moment of death).

Swami later traveled to Karaikkal where a Muslim saint, Mastan Sahib, asked him, 'What is the state in which you and I can remain as all pervasive reality?'

To this Swami replied, 'If you remain in the state in which objective knowledge - you, I, this and that - is no more, then you can remain the one, all pervasive reality.'

Swami's wandering came to an end when he reached Tiruvarur. He spent the rest of his life there, roaming naked.

A man called Somanatha Mudaliar, who came from Chittoor, had been suffering from a colic that did not respond to any treatment. As a last resort he went to Chidambaram and prayed to Lord Nataraja to rid him of this suffering.

On the third day of his visit there, when he was unable to bear the pain any longer, he went into the Lord's presence and said, 'I cannot bear this pain any more. I am going to kill myself.'

As he was preparing to execute this act, a voice from the shrine said, 'Your disease will not get cured here. Go to Tiruvarur and pray to Dakhinamurti. You will get immediate and permanent relief. Do not commit suicide.'

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Dakshinamurti Swami:

continues.....

Mudaliar went to Tiruvarur and worshipped at the Dakshinamurti shrine in the Thyagaraja Temple, but the colic did not subside even a little. Not knowing what to do next, he was totally bewildered.

That night Lord Nataraja appeared as a sannyasin in his dream and said to him, 'This is not the Dakshinamurti I mentioned to you. There is one wandering naked in this place. Go to him instead.'

Early the following morning Mudaliar started searching for Swami by making inquiries about him. He eventually found Swami in the company of dogs, eating food that had been discarded on leaf plates which had been thrown outside a house. Realizing that this was the person he was looking for, Mudaliar prostrted to him with great devotion. Swami looked at him, placed the food he had in his hand in Mudaliar's mouth, and asked 'Did Natesan (Lord Nataraja) send you here?'

Mudaliar obtained instant instant and permanent relief from the pain that had been afflicting for many years. It was only after this event, that Swami came to be known as Dakshinamurti Swami, a name given by Lord Natarja himself.

After this incident, Swami's fame spread far and wide, and many people came to see him. One day, the king of Thanjavur, who ruled the area in which Tiruvarur was located, paid a visit to the town to witness the famous car festival. Since he was a great devotee of Swami, he wanted to donate a village to him.

He told one of his officials, 'Today I would like to have darshan of Dakshinamurti Swami and offer him a gift of a village from this area. Choose a suitable village and inform his disciples about this matter.'

The official short listed a few villages on a chit and showed it to the local tahsildar, saying, 'Go to Swami's place and tell his disciples that they should accept one of the villages mentioned in this note when the king comes to see Swami.'

The tahsildar informed a senior disciple of Swami of the king's wish and gave him the list of villages to choose from. The disciple then took the list to Swami.

continued.......

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Dakshinamurti Swami:

continues.....

However, before he could enter the hall in which Swami was lying on a cot, Swami called out to him, 'All the worlds are a mere appearance in us, like blue, yellow and other colors in the sky. Someone is gifting a little land and another person is accepting it. Is that the person (who accepts) not someone who wants to quench his thirst by drinking mirage water?'

As soon as the disciple heard these remarks he became very afraid. He threw away the note and never discussed it with Swami.

On one occasion, a group of brahmin sannyasins came to Tiruvarur on a pilgrimage. Though they were aware of the supreme state of Dakshinamurti Swami, they were reluctant to go and see him because they felt that the traditonalists among the brahmins might find fault with them. So, they were hoping for a chance meeting to take place.

During their visit Swami was resting on the stone steps of the famous Kamalalayam tank. The sannyasins heard about this and, on the pretext of doing pradakshina of the tank, went to the place where Swami was lying. When they arrived, they saw Swami lying on the stone steps, indifferent to the hot sunshine.

Overwhelmed by the divine appearance of Swami, the chief sannyasin thought to himself, 'Won't it be more comfortable if Swami lies in the shade of a tree?'

Responding to his unspoken thought, Swami replied, 'Can an insentient tree offer comfort to the Self, which is Consciousness? If it can, then mirage water will cool a hot region. The origin of the perception of differences is the absence of Jnana drishti (true vision).

The sannyasins took this as Upadesa and were immensely pleased by this statement.

A few days before his Mahasamadhi, Swami exclaimed, 'Finished! Finished! Completely finioshed!' and withdrew into a state of nishta (absorption in the Self). He attained Maha Samadhi towards the end of August 1895, and his Samadhi shrine is located at Madapuram in Tiruvarur.

concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Verses of Alan Jacobs:

(from his Myrobalan of the Magi -
privately printed.)

Self Realization is Not:

Self Realization is not this, a
goal to be attained,
Not an empty vacuous frisson of
mystic bliss.
Realization is not a place to be
maintained.
Self Realization is not this.
It's no greed for possessions,
passionate, sealed with a kiss,
Not any conceptual notion, in mind
retained,
And not is Self, a half baked
theorem wildly amiss.

It is not priggish righteousness,
moral, chaste, unstained,
Not a state of mind you wish
hurriedly to dismiss.
It is no god of earthly clay to
claim and be detained,
Self Realization is not this.

*

Divine Archery

Into a quiver we were quickly
packed by God
The great giver of grace to our
earth clod,
He would hone us, arrow sharp, to
hit the mark.
He enters, bone, soul and marrow,
to fire His spark
Dormant in our heart, then fan it
into a flame.
Such is the power and glory of His
Holy Name.

*******

Subramanian. R said...

Faith -

An essay by Arthur Osborne:

Faith means much more than belief. Buddha, for instance, deprecated belief, preferring his followers to try every proposition for themselves. And yet he insisted strongly on the need for Sraddha, faith. Faith also does not mean the conviction that what one wants will come about or prayers be granted. To take again the example of Buddha; he did not even teach belief in a God to answer prayers. What then was the faith he demanded, and in whom or what?

A man faces life with a feeling of his own individual existence. He also has an intuition of pure Being, perhaps a fleeting recollection of complete certitude. Faith means surrender to and trust in this pure being, whether he considers it other than himself or he very essence of himself. That means abnegation of the individual being or ego.

It does not necessarily mean the conviction that one's prayers will be answered. It means acceptance of the unimportance or even unreality of the individual who prays, or at any rate its complete subordination to That to which it prays. This results in removal of the obstructions to the free flow of the Divine Harmony, that is to say to an attitude of 'Thy Will be done', whether verbally expressed or not. and since the Divine Harmony is what is right and necessary, such an attitude does in fact bring about answering of prayers, especially of unasked prayers, since even the asking is an intrusion of self will. There is a beautiful little book called The Son Liveth, by Frank Drake which begins with a father praying for his son's recovery from severe illness and develops into both father and son accepting whatever may come.

Continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

Faith:

continues.....

This is not a supine attitude. On the contrary, there is great power in it, for more than in the conscious mind. That is what spiritual teachers have always declared - the power of faith.
Power flows naturally, only the conscious mind shuts it off. Particularly the desire to utilize it for purposes selected and approved by the conscious mind shuts it off. What is needed is submission without interference. It is only when complete purity is attained (that is when the desire to utilize the power for individual ends is completely eliminated) that it can be canalized. Before that the attempt to utilize it destroys it. Therefore, what is done is to admit to That Power which naturally does so. Thus, indirectly, one removes the obstruction to its beneficent flow.

Sri Bhagavan says that if one is firm in the belief that a Higher Power guides us, there need not be any concern about what happens. Then all doubts are cleared, and the devotee will remain perfectly happy in his faith in the Omnipresent.

"The faith of each is in accordance with his nature. O, Bharata. The man is made up of his faith; as a man's faith is, so is he." (Bhagavad Gita. XVII 3.)

concluded.

Chakri said...

Hi Subbu,
I have read in English translations of some Buddhistic texts that Sraddha is Faith.In my mother tongue as I understand, it means Focus/Attentive.Even Shirdi Sai uses 'Sraddha Saburi'. Focus/Attentive and Perseverence.Here's a cut n paste from dictionary:
*********************
śraddha
n. 1 care, diligence; bhakti ~ lu or śraddhaabhaktulu care and devotion. 2 interest, attention. 3 zeal.
**********************
nammakam, nammika
n. 1 trust, reliance. 2 confidence, assurance, belief, faith, credence.
***********************

Folks whats right?Surely famous translators cannot go wrong??

Chakri said...

Subbu n Folks,
Why read opinions, commentaries and musings when you have the direct words of the Buddha.Here are two Free books which are direct translations of the Nikayas by Bhikku Thanissaro:

http://archive.org/details/handfulofleaves01thanmiss

http://archive.org/details/handfulofleaves02thanarch

More free translations of the Nikayas:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/index.html

Life of Buddha by Bhikku Nanamoli is a famous book floating free on the internet.

Buddha's direct words in the Nikayas are:
1)Wholistic study of every angle of a given topic
2)Words are Exacting and topics detailed
3)Deeply goal oriented and practical
4)Touches most topics of human life
5)The way he approaches and builds a topic or shatters a myth is profoundly wise

Why read commentaries,opinions and musings,Dhamma Talks on Buddha.Even later philosophies by Nagarjuna,Abhidhamma etc are not the spirit and wisdom of Buddha.

Just read the direct words for Free.

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Zee,

I have not many Buddhist texts. However Arthur Osborne says:

I repeat:

Faith means much more than belief. Buddha, for instance, deprecated belief, preferring his followers TO TRY OUT EVERY PROPOSITION FOR THEMSELVES. AND YET HE INSISTED STRONGLY ON THE NEED FOR SRADDHA, FAITH.

Thus Arthur says that only faith is much more than belief....Buddha deprecated belief, preferring his followers to try out every proposition for themselves, and yet he insisted strongly on the need for sraddha, faith.....

Thus, he did not say anything different than what is quoted by you.

Subramanian. R

Chakri said...

Subramanian,
You will know that the article by Arthur Osborne is very poor if you read the direct words Buddha.

You can download the two Free book links I posted which are an anthology of translations of the 3 famous Nikayas and see it for yourself.Just read a few suttas and taste for yourself.

I have read, glossed many books in the past across various religions but the depth, range, wholistic treatment,goal oriented, intellect, wisdom, profoundity and practicality of the direct words of Buddha in these Pali Nikayas recorded in 1st century BC is shocking to me.In a discussion the way he builds up a topic, the way he decimates the myth inch by inch comprehensively and the way he makes you see it is amazing.

Ravi said...

Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"Can one find God in the sacred books? By reading the scriptures one may feel at the most
that God exists
. But God does not reveal Himself to a man unless he himself dives deep.
Only after such a plunge, after the revelation of God through His grace, is one's doubt
destroyed. You. may read scriptures by the thousands and recite thousands of texts; but
unless you plunge into God with yearning of heart, you will not comprehend Him. By mere
scholarship you may fool man, but not God.
"Scriptures and books-what can one achieve with these alone? Nothing can be realized
without His grace. Strive with a longing heart for His grace. Through His grace you will see
Him and He will talk to you."

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

tirup puhalur - 609 704.

This temple is about 7 kms. from Nannilam. This is the temple where Saint Tiru Navukkarasar had attained mukti at an age of past 80. It is also the birth place of Muruga Nayanar, one of the 63 Saiva Saints, who used to submit garlands to Siva everyday, When Sundaramurti came to this temple, he slept with four bricks (kept for renovation of the temple) as pillow. When he woke up, he found the bricks had turned into gold! When Saint Tiru Navukkarsar was doing cleaning work in this temple, he threw away the gold coins and gems along with the other garbage!

Siva is called Agniswarar. Uma is called karuthAazh kuzhali ammai, one who has got jet black, long flowing tresses. The holy waters (tirtham) are a tank called Agni Tirtham. The temple tree is punnai tree. The shrines of Chandrasekhara and the god Agni are quite famous here. Siva lingam is slightly turned towards its left. Hence Siva is called koNapiran, the Lord with a slanting pose, in this temple.

Saint Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 22 of his verses, in Canon 2, Saint Tiru Navukkarasar has mentioned this temple in 44 of his verses, in Canon 6 and Saint Sundaramurti has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses, in Canon 7.

The famous VAthapi Ganapati is in this temple, along with the idol of Saint Sundaramurti.

******

Subramanian. R said...

Some Personal Notes on Loving Oneself:

Alasdair Black - Deepam - 2005
Mountain Path:

I once worked with a Roman Catholic priest who said to me, 'The trouble with you is you don't love yourself!' Which was true. But although that good and compassionate man was able to demonstrate very clearly how to love OTHERS, he was unwilling to explain how he also managed to love HIMSELF. Indeed, he once admitted that he had the same problem! That he had great difficulty in loving himself at all!

We all know how vitally important it is to love ourselves in our daily lives and activities, for the simple reason that it is otherwise impossible to love others. Indeed, it is a requirement of the Christian faith that we love God, others and ourselves equally. Which tells us what is needed, but now how to do it; nor is there anything
in this about loving everything else in nature as well as other people. Sri Bhagavan, on the other hand, was clear that we need to love everything in creation - animals, trees, stones, the Earth itself - indeed, everything we are aware of. This obviously includes other people and ourselves. Sri Bhagavan taught that while the main effort needs to be in loving ourselves, it is impossible to do this properly without loving others and everything as well. We have His
assurance, however, that if we persists in loving in this way, we will eventually realize our true Self and that this realization comes the realization that we ARE all these others - that God, we ourselves and others are all one and the same.

Which is all very well, but WHAT IS LOVE AND HOW DO WE LOVE OURSELVES IN OUR DAILY LIVES AND ACTIVITIES? At which point I have to admit that I am as useless as the priest and can only offer my own understanding of what may be involved.

As to what love actually is, on the assumption that most of us are, like myself, unrealized and living in a state of duality, a very simple definition of love is to completely identify with the object of one's love, disinterestedly wishing only for what one understands to be best for that object and without wishing for anything in return. The question of WHAT IS BEST is a matter for God, for Iswara. Which means that we need to trust, to surrender totally and unconditionally to God, as part of this process of loving. Moreover, love, if it is truly love, does not choose what to love or what not to love -- although LIKING is another matter.

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

Some Personal Notes on Loving Oneself:

Alasdair Black:

continues....

It is rash to attempt a simple definition of love. There is quite a bit more to it that this. In any case, love which has an object is dualistic, non-advaitic concept. The kind of love, Sri Bhagavan taught us was, I think, more to do with a state of love, of being love, with oneself and everything else, unconditionally and all the time, 'God is Love', as Sri Bhagavan said.

It follows from all this that we need to begin by loving OURSELVES, in this way; while being aware that the 'I' who is loving is the same as the'I' who is loved. Which is a difficult thing for most of us to do. As to HOW to love ourselves in this way, in all we are engaged in throughout each day, Sri Bhagavan's guidance comes under the general heading of Surrendered Self Inquiry. It is clear from His teaching that a degree of self discipline, of regular practice is necessary if we are serious in our wish to love ourselves genuinely and to progress towards Self Realization.

In one of His earlier works, Sri Bhagavan describes the way in which the 'I' - the ego or the false self - arises when we awake each morning, at the same moment that our perception of the world as something separate from ourselves arises. And then suggests that having focused on this 'I', we should inquire what is behind it. 'Do not even murmur 'I' but inquire keenly within what is that now shines within the heart as 'I'. So we need to try to catch this 'I'-thought, the ego, when we awaken to consciousness each morning, and then to ask ourselves; Who am I? And keep this question in our minds throughout the day. But how to do it? It is not easy. I can only offer to share my experience of the way I try to do this, in the hope that it may be helpful to others.

I find it essential to begin with a spell of meditation, however short, as soon as I get out of bed, by sitting in front of two pictures; one of Sri Bhagavan and the other of the Hill. Sometimes for as little as five minutes, but often for half an hour or even more, depending on how I feel and how much time is available. This meditation ends with a full length prostration on the floor; both as an act of total surrender and also because it is intrinsically beneficial to assume this posture. If I haven't had a good meditation for some reason, if I haven't been able to concentrate, I find that stretching myself with my chest and forehead on the ground somehow brings enough stillness into my mind, to enable me to give at least a few seconds of completely surrendered attention to the Self.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

Some Personal Notes on Loving Oneself:

continues.....

And then come the day's activities. The world intrudes as soon as the radio comes no with the news. Which
is full of negativity. I am appalled that my country has decided to invade another country - which seems to be the least wise of all the options in this particular situation - but what to do? Is there anything I can do - apart from getting on with my own life and work, in the hope that working on my own small part of Sri Bhagavan's canvas, His masterpiece, may be what is required of me, HE is the Master, the omniscient one. Who am I anyway to say that the leaders of my country are right or wrong? They are aware of all kinds of things which I know nothing about. They have their part of the canvas I paint. I mine. Better to be quiet and to get on with what I have to do. But I am disturbed by what I hear about Iraq on the radio nevertheless, as well as by the other items in the news.

Then, on the way to work, there are more upsetting things. I might have started with love in my heart, but I am easily upset if someone pushes in front of me to get on the bus or train. How dare these foreigners behave like this? In London - where I live and work - there are people from every part of the world who now seem to outnumber us, the 'natives'. Who do they think they are, these foreigners? Pushing and shoving as if they were still in Dijibouti or Jakarta? In fact, the more serene my meditation has been, the more easily I am upset by this kind of thing. Which is puzzling. My meditation was meant to make me oblivious to these petty irritations. Perhaps I don't really have any love in my heart at all?
It is WHAT IS IN MY HEART FROM MOMENT TO MOMENT which seems to matter. My mood can so quickly change from one of love to its opposite. So I try to catch myself, to re-focus myself in the middle of these disturbances, to 'keep my head cool while my hands are engaged in the activities of the mundane world'. Which is easier said than done. And anyway, WHO AM I, if I have time to reflect, to make these judgments about my fellow creatures? These 'foreigners' are here for all kinds of good reasons. They have as much right to be here as myself. to class myself as a native in any case, begs all kinds of other questions. Was I not myself born in another distant country, one which my own country happened to be colonizing at that time? What a waste of energy all this speculation, all this agitation, is. An observation I am sometimes aware enough to make, but as often not.

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

Some Personal Notes on Loving Oneself:

continues....

I happen to be a lawyer, a profession whose function is, amongst other things, to deal in negativity in one form or another. We pay lawyers to protect our property and rights, to guide us through the wilderness of official rules which are meant to regulate our activities; to stop us straying into pitfalls. To steer us though the shoals of regulations which have come into being for various reasons, including our politicians' current notions of what is good for us, quite apart from our moral inadequacy. Are lawyers therefore merely parasites preying on human weakness and would we better off without them?

('Law is merely the codified acceptance of what we are' said J. Krishnamurti, who also observed that the law, like politics, is a dealing in the realm of effects. Negative effects mostly. As opposed to causes, which are the preserve of the more creative professionals, such as educators, philosophers and artists.)

Thoughts like these pass through my mind, as I make my way to the office. Until I catch myself, if I am lucky, and remind myself of another thing that Sri Bhagavan stressed. That too much thought is not helpful. Too much thought. Yes. But it is difficult NOT to think -- in an urban landscape in which everything around me evokes thought, a landscape in which almost everything is after all the result of thought. Expressed in squares, cubes, circles or straight lines, or in variants of these - windows, wheels, paving stones, streets...projections, all of them, of the way the human mind finds it easiest to control, to manipulate, the chaotic diversity of nature - nature whose own shapes and forms are mostly irregular - trees, babies, clouds, flies, ... although there are the circles of sun and moon, the straight line of the horizon and the mathematically precise form of a honeycomb...

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

Some Personal Notes on Loving Oneself:

continues.....

Chatter, chatter, chatter. Will my mind ever stop? Where is love in all this - of myself, or of anything else? But I can't stop myself thinking this way, however much I try. My thoughts, although partly due to my environment are in any case compulsive, feeding off themselves, one thought leading to another, impelled by desire in one form or another, by vasanas,, habits of the mind. Which are in turn connected with what I eat - which starts another train of thought... The thing to do, perhaps, is simply to let all these thoughts run in, through and out of my mind, without, hopefully, allowing them to leave any residue, any precursor to more thought. Which is much easier said than done.

One way of coping with thought, of keeping it positive, is through the repetition of mantras, or prayers; to keep repeating, for example: Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya'. Sri Bhagavan sometimes counseled the repetition of mantras, which one can do silently in one's mind.

Then, in office, I am confronted with even more thought-provoking situations, beginning with openeing of the post. A letter reads: 'It is noted that your client has filed to apply to extend the term of his lease by 31 December 2004, as required by Clause 24. Your client is therefore required to leave his home by 31 January 2005.' Heavens! Should Mr. Smith have done that, or rather, shouldn't I have reminded him to give in his notice by 31 Deecmber? Heavens above! Has he got anywhere to go? Shouldn't I have advised him that he had to give in his notice by that date? Poor Mr. Smith! And it is my fault! There was a time when I would have broken out in a cold sweat whenever anything like this happened. Even now I might say, "Bhagavan! Please help me., Please!"

Like all of us, however, I have learned not to take these things at face value. It might turn out that the author of the letter had not himself read the lease correctly. Or that Mr. Smith had in fact given his notice in time, but that whoever sent the latter was not aware of this. The mind in any case plays all kinds of tricks. Sri Bhagavan's story comes to mind, about the parents who believed for many years, that their child had died because someone told them so, a report which turned out top be untrue and which meant that their long period of grief and suffering had been unnecessary. In the same way, the results of mistakes made by lawyers may come to light many years after they have been made. In a Will, for example, when the Testator dies, although the lawyer who had prepared the faulty Will might have done so many years previously.

The point about all this is that I, the lawyer, am not more or less lovable before or after the mistake comes to light; whereas my reaction on becoming aware of having made the mistake is to hate myself. 'And such a want-wit sadness makes me that I have much ado to know myself.'

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

(Lesser known temples.)

tiru nAlur mayAnam - 612 605.

'mayAnam' in Tamizh means a cremation ground. It is also natural to have some Siva temples in the cremation grounds, since Siva is said to dance in cremation grounds. This is one such temple.
It is about 10 kms. from Kumbakonam. Sage Abasthamba is said to have prayed to Siva here.

Siva is called Jnana Parameswarar. Uma is called Jnanambika. The tirtham (holy waters) is a tank called Chandra tirtham. Saint Tiru Jnana Sambandhar is said to have prayed to Siva in 11 verses in Canon 2.

It is called a 'vaippu thalam.' vaipu thalam means the place where Saiva Saints prayed to Siva as an additional place, where there was no formally constructed temple by a king or a chieftain.

*******

Subramanian. R said...

Some Personal Notes on Loving Oneself:

Alasdair Black:

(Deepam, 2005, Mountain Path)

continues.....

But who am I? to judge myself in this way? A long time might have elapsed before the mistake came to light, a time in which I remained blissfully unaware of having done anything wrong and in which I continued to love myself as much as usual. I did not in any case make the mistake intentionally, although I might have have been negligent in some way. And there may be consequences which now have to be dealt with, effects which I, the lawyer, have caused! I am after all paid to foresee and to prevent these effects! But if a colleague had made such a mistake, would I condemn him? I hope not. I hope that rather than doing so I would help put matters right as far as possible. Then why should I judge myself? A great deal of unnecessary pain and anguish is involved in attempting any judgments of this sort. Which doesn't stop us doing it. It is natural to loathe ourselves when we
realize we have made a mistake; though it need not be, and if we adopted the perspective that Sri Bhagavan teaches it would not be.

Failing to accept ourselves in these or other situations renders us less able to get on with what we need to do in the here and now. The trick is to be unaffected by success or failure, perfection or imperfection. Both in ourselves and in others. Again, this is much easier said than done. Judgments in these situations are a reflex of the ego, an expression of our lack of Self Knowledge.

It may not be a bad thing, however, to appeal to Sri Bhagavan for help in these situations. Although we have that help, in the form of His grace, at all times, we often forget this, especially at times of crisis when reason flies out of the window -- just when we need to love ourselves most. The important point is to BE AWARE of Sri Bhagaan, that is our real Self, all the time. Like the monkeys who may seem to be playing but who never lose sight of the fruit they are trying to steal. (Pramada. Forgetfulness of the Self, see Padmalai, by Muruganar, ed. David Godman, p. 49).

An important part of keeping one's balance is to keep to a proper diet, a moderate diet of sattvic food, as Sri Bhagavan prescribed. Which can be difficult in the emotional turmoil of a day in the life of a lawyer -- indeed of anyone. My own immediate reaction when I am upset is to drink a cup of tea or coffee, or to eat a bun or some chocolate. Some of us smoke cigarettes, or make calls on our mobile phones in these situations. None of which are ideal reactions. I haven't found the answer to this one and would appreciate any suggestions.

Finally, in theory, I again meditate before I go to bed -- although I have to admit that this sometimes (often) doesn't happen if I am too tired -- with the same period of five minutes or more in front of the same two pictures, going into a private world in which I begin by imagining myself in the Asramam, sitting in the Old Hall or on the way up to Skandasramam. That beautiful path. Or wandering from Skandasramam down into Virupaksha Cave and sitting there. Before trying to gradually quieten and if possible to eliminate all thought.

concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Ramaswami Pillai - An early devotee:

(The following is the first person account of Mr. Pillai written in January 1930.)

Deepam, 2005, Mountain Path:

I first came to the Maharshi, immediately after my final school examinations were completed in March 1917. At this time I used to think of my mother, my father and Sri Bhagavan a lot. I was doing Japa by chanting the name of God, Lord Vishnu as Narayana.

The first time I saw Sri Bhagavan was at Skandasramam and I fancied I was seeing a royal hunter in the forest. His personality was striking and I thought of Him as this hunter hunting down the senses. My first visit was for one or two days, but no conversation passed between us. Our eyes alone met. directly when I saw Him the impact was so great that I gave up my previous Narayana Japa. On this visit I met one Sri Narayana Reddiar and he gave me a copy of The Marital Garland of Letters. After departing the Maharshi's presence, I used to recite these verses aloud occasionally silently within the mind, identifying Arunachala with the Maharshi. I kept in touch with the Maharshi by writing occasional letters to Naryana Reddiar to which he would reply giving me the details of the Maharshi and the Asramam.

After my initial visit, I did not return for a couple of years. When I eventually did, I was able to go around the Hill several times with the Maharshi on His pradakshinas. Each time we went, we would all sing the The Marital Garland. We also sang the Appala Pattu and on our slow walk around the Hill, or when we halted at Gautama Ashram, we would ask Him to explain the words in the song.

About this time, I had a family tragedy. My mother committed suicide due to a disagreement with my father, and obviously as a young man I felt the loss very deeply.

I went to college at Pachiappa from 1917-1922, losing one year because of a failure in my intermediate year. In February 1921, I joined the Non-Cooperation Movement against the British. Still feeling very depressed about the loss of my mother, I remember writing to Narayana Reddiar to try and discover her condition as a spirit. I never received a reply to that particular letter, but in course of time, my grief lessened and eventually disappeared. During this time also, I was feeling very guilty about my sexual desires, although they did not amount to anything like a crime or a serious sin. Narayana Reddiar gave me some advice in his letters, but the problem persisted until I visited Sri Bhagavan in 1919, and confessed my failures to Him. From that point on, I was never again troubled by my desires.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

Ramaswami Pillai: An early devotee:

(first person account)

continues.....

I was still very much attracted to The Marital Garland, and in addition to the memorizing it, I wrote it out again and again. I was still involved with the Non Cooperation Movement, and while still at the Asramam, I cast lots, thinking of Sri Bhagavan, trying to decide whether I should continue to 'Non Cooperate'. I stayed at the Asramam for fifteen days. I did not consult my father, but I informed him of my decision about quitting the college again. During this visit, I met Sivaprakasam Pillai and Ganapati Muni for the first time. After some time, my father came to see what was detaining me, and, after taking advice in the Asramam, I went back to my village where in 1921, I was married. I found married life very disagreeable, and in June 1922, I returned to the Asramam, arriving at 6 am. to find Sri Bhagavan, Dandapani Swami and Chinnaswami. On this occasion, I stayed for two months doing all kinds of odd jobs. Dandapani Swami wanted me to go fund raising with him for the Asramam, but In declined because I preferred doing service in the Asramam itself. I remained in the Asramam during his absence for one year, looking after the management with Chinnaswami, and keeping the accounts. During this period, over Rs. 2000 were spent on clearing and leveling the ground in and around the Asramam buildings.

That year was the best so far in my spiritual life -- months at a stretch were spent in Sri Bhagavan's company with frequent opportunities to walk around the Hill with Him. It was a period of intense activity, for we were working night and day to clear the stones, and Sri Bhagavan used to join us and give us a hand.

After ten months of the Asramam life, I left for my village, though
returning frequently to visit Him. During my visits sometimes I used to concentrate on Sri Bhagavan's face in the middle of the night, and usually I would see a halo of flowing glorious light in all the seven colors of the rainbow. These visions reminded me of a royal figure from the time of the Moghuls. This happened to me several times, but mostly, they happened during my early visits in 1921 or before.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

Ramaswami Pillai - An early devotee:

continues.....

Sri Bhagavan's inner personality used to manifest on important occasions like Kartika Deepam, Jayanti, Maha Sivaratri and His Mother's Mahapuja --- also when old staunch devotees came to see Him. It was on such occasions, that we saw His light especially shining on us. He would be all love, mercy and grace. He would be our model and exemplar, a light for us to be guided by. In 1923, on the first Sivaratri when I was with Him, Sri Bhagavan did not start out to walk around the Hill, as was His usual custom. Everyone else went around the Hill, and only four of us stayed with Him. Dandapani Swami, Viswanathan, myself and one other devotee sat with Him all through the Sivaratri night. We were all awake throughout the night in a blissful state impossible to express in words.

From my experience, the best way to communicate with Sri Bhagavan was to gaze into His eyes, when He was in silent samadhi state. Then, peace of mind came spontaneously, and the inward search was made much easier. When He was in such a state, merely to be near Him was to experience pure happiness.

Even in His absence, or even when I was away from the Asramam, I used to think of His person and of His name, and I would experience the sinking of all thoughts into the Self. During one stay of two months, at the Asramam, we read the Ribhu Gita often. There would usually be six or seven of us, including Sri Bhagavan, and we each read a few verses, in turn, going all the way through the book until we had finished the complete book. Sri Bhagavan told us, and on occasions we felt and expereienced it, that to read the Ribhu Gita is to be in Samadhi. Viswanathan, Muruganar, Chinnaswami and anyone else who was present would sit together in a ring with Sri Bhagavan and take it in turns to read. No other book was read so often, but sometimes we would vary our reading by going through the Tiruvachakam and the works of Thayumanavar. Sometimes Sri Bhagavan Himself would read out three or four stanzas from a work, and explain the meaning to us. In addition to the readings, we often chanted certain works in His Presence. Apart from the Hymns to Arunachala, we frequently recited the Dakshinamurti Ashtakam in His Presence. As soon as His new works Upadesa Undiyar and Ulladu Narpadu were composed, we all learned them by heart in all the four languages in which he had composed them. On other occasions we would recite verses written in praise of Him by Muruganar, Sivaprakasam Pillai and the Tamizh pandit, T.R. Ramachandra Iyer.

To me, He is still more than father, mother, king, country, guru and God.

concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

INSTANT CULTURE:

Editorial - Aradhana 2005,
Mountain Path:

Dissatisfaction with our world and our culture has become endemic throughout the world. Why else would people come searching for alternatives, why indeed would people look for spiritual sustenance if they were confronted with the world they live in? Although this type of discontent is rife, the reason for it is sometimes not very clear. As individuals, we know that something is wrong, but we are becoming more and more indoctrinated by a culture that is trying to erase individuality. Individuality gets in the way of the 'system.'

There are innumerable reasons why people are attracted to Sri Bhagavan's teachings but the underlying thread is suffering generated by alienation from society due either to emotional, spiritual or economic causes. Some may be attracted for purely intellectual reasons, as Sri Bhagavan's teachings are so clear. Personal reasons are also innumerable and unique to each individual, and so do not concern us in this essay.

The social consequence of the new world economy is a new phenomenon whereby people are valued not as human beings but as economic units. The proficient use of factories has dramatically increased the type and range of goods available that make our lives more comfortable. There are better medical facilities and superior forms of communication and transportation. People live longer and are physically more secure. However, all this superior organization has come at a cost, the price of which we are only just beginning to calculate.

People are now increasingly seen as machines that generate products that create profits and with these profits, power for those who through their ingenuity and good luck have managed to become dominant in the enviable echelons of society. These products are not only material, they can also be services as we see particularly in Western countries where economies are becoming service oriented. The arts and culture, in general have also become services, which provide entertainment when workers are free of their duties. Thus instead of being expressions of the live rhythms of society, the arts have instead become mere entertainment, with little nourishment for the spirit.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

(Lesser known temples.)

tiru thengoor - 610 205.

This temple is about 15 kms. from Tiruvarur. Lakshmi and the nine planets (nava graha) are said to have prayed to Siva here. To represent this there are 9 lingams each in front of one graha, planet and one lingam in front of Lakshmi in her shrine.

Siva is called VeLLi malai nAthar. Uma is called Periya nAyaki. The tirtham (holy waters) is a tank called Sivaganga. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is coconut tree.

Saint Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses in Canon 2.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

INSTANT CULTURE:

Editorial - Advent 2005 of Mountain Path:

continues....

The person who works in a production line spends the day replicating the same function until it becomes a mindless activity. The owners of the assembly line are saying, in effect, 'You are an extension of the machine'. Similarly, the people who work behind the counters at fast food restaurants or punching information for railway tickets on computers or dealing with complaints from irate citizens whose telephones do not function, are not permitted to work using their full capabilities. This is because people who try to be creative can disrupt the process. From the point of view of the system, they are more likely to mess things up. One of the irrationalities of a rationalized organizational system - a non living being -- takes priority over living beings such as workers and consumers. Consumers too become workers because without them the current economic system would collapse.

In short, we see a trend to cut out the individual in the consumer culture at large. The culture works to eliminate genuine human interaction, because interactions are unpredictable and eat up valuable time, which cold be spent making more profits. We are left with either no interaction at all, such as ATMs or with false communication such as say, rules in fast food centers where workers, as part of their job, are required to smile at all times. We have been sold the idea of total conformity and it takes a shrewd mind to spot that what we have brought is total blandness and mediocrity. Worst of all, we have arrived at this state without even realizing it. Even ordinary speech in our so called free society has its designated conventional rules; rules which we are more or less obliged to abide due to what is called political correctness.

One of the central trends of modern western culture and in particular American culture, is towards the loss of the sense of the sacred. Life is less and less a journey to be savored, both good and the bad, and more something to speed through as quickly as possible. Meals are turned into acts of consumption rather than joyful sharing and the splendor of ancient forests is converted into wood chips for plywood planks and toilet paper.

The German sociologist Max Weber called this the 'disenchantment of the world'. In a world dominated by a rationalized culture, the magic, the mystery, the religious qualities of the world are called into question and subtly decried as being irrelevant and childish. Our sciences and our bureaucratic organizations are systematically stripping the natural world of its magical properties and its capacity for meaning, and in turn, we are stripped of our capacity to perceive this magic and meaning in our everyday life. In a perfect world of modern industrialized consumer life, we are machines whose function it is to consume the products made for our benefit. If we are not aware of these benefits, the bright minds in the advertising industry will soon make us feel we are sadly lacking if we don't have their new and indispensable product; very often we are coaxed into desiring something that we didn't even know existed a few minutes ago.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

INSTANT CULTURE:

continues.....

As the whole planet becomes more computerized it is also ipso facto becoming insidiously more conformist. In the so called free world, everyone is filed into computer slots. There is no room for square pegs in round holes. Those days are long gone as it is now mandatory for general convenience that everyone fits into a designated niche and every detail about them is accessible at the touch of a button. Our whole world is being programmed for uniformity, convenience and speed. There is no obvious villain in this case, most of us accept the rules of the world we live in and become so unaware of the constraints imposed upon us that we no longer notice them. In fact most of us now cannot manage without instant communication by e mail; instant clothes of the rack;
instant food from a fast food outlet or from a jar of pre-prepared stuff. We take all of this so much for granted as part of our everyday lives, that we now also look for instant, self-realization! Some people come to the Asramam with an agenda and a time limit and they results by the clock! Sadly, although their desire for enlightenment is genuine, their assumption that it can be attained by them or conferred on them to a set agenda shows a complete lack of understanding of Sri Bhagavan and His teachings and also what self realization really means.

We see this phenomenon in the spiritual wold today both here in India and abroad. Various organizations have sprung up to facilitate the dissemination of knowledge of Hindu culture and spiritual teachings. They have done an admirable job making people aware of the depths and splendor of the Sanatana Dharma. Many of these organizations have now branches all over the world, to instruct non resident Indians as well as new comers to the dharma. In the west, indigenous groups have independently sprung up, teaching their own versions of the dharma some with more success than others.

Unfortunately in some groups, often headed by charismatic leaders who claim 'realization', students are told that they too will receive the transmission if certain specified qualifications are fulfilled. That is, they do as they are told. We can only speak generally her for there are those who are genuine and whose yogic and Vedantic practices are legitimate.

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

INSTANT CULTURE:

continues.....

In the same way, that the modern social and economic world has the tendency to be rationalized there is the danger in spiritual circles that teachings are being homogenized like a factory assembly line, Students are promised that at the end of a specific course or set of teachings they will gain some kind of enlightenment. If they surrender and give up to the organization some or all of their worldly goods, they are well on the way to being accepted and therefore qualified to receive the secret teachings. We therefore read in spiritual magazines about people who are 'realized' and are told that if we would just step forward, we too have the chance of to become 'realized'. It seems all so easy. As in a fast food restaurant, all we need is line up, pay our dues and the fabulous product is in our hands. It sounds enticing and is compelling for many who are confused and in search of a magic elixir to cure their suffering and resolve their doubts; particularly as it is laid out in the 'instant' idiom which they are familiar.

There is the notion that spiritual truth can be institutionalized and that it can be the exclusive preserve of an individual who claims some magical copyright. If we believe that, we are at the mercy of this so called higher being who dispenses the truth, at more often than not, their own whim. We should exercise discrimination when enticed by offers of a quick cure for our emotional, mental and spiritual ills.

Let us be very clear, spirituality is not the exclusive domain of an individual or a specific religion. We are all equally qualified to receive the teachings that will free us from the cycle of life and death. Sincerity is the sole qualification which determines whether we discover the right teacher to remove our ignorance. The Sanskrit word "sraddha" can be variously translated as faith, sincerity, and duty. As Jesus Christ would say, 'Knock and it shall open to you.' But first we have to knock.

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

INSTANT CULTURE:

continues.....

Sri Ramana Maharshi was quite precise about the dissemination of spiritual
teachings on a one to one basis.

In 1936, when Paramahamsa Yogananda visited the Asramam, he asked Sri Bhagavan:

'How is the spiritual uplift of the people to be effected? What are the instructions to be given to them?'

Sri Bhagavan replied: 'They differ according to the temperaments of the individuals and according to the spiritual ripeness of their minds. They cannot be any instruction en masse.' (Talks 107).

In the face of these alarming challenges, what are we to do if our integrity as individuals is to remain intact? How are we to manage our lives and not fall into this mediocrity? How can we live, feed, and clothe ourselves and our families without compromising our principles?

There are no easy answers here and each of us has to discover what is appropriate to take care of our body, heart and mind.

Sri Bhagavan taught that we are not the body. This means that we should not confuse our true identity with the body. Jesus Christ put it very well when the Pharisees who asked if it was lawful to pay tribute (taxes). He looked at a coin which displayed an image of the emperor, and said: 'Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's. (Matthew 22.21).

In that context, our bodies belong to Caesar and as they are the corporeal container in which we live, we should take some care of them. Sri Bhagavan Himself was a notable cook and for many years he enjoyed helping in the kitchen. He demonstrated by His own life how it was possible to live in accord with the world around Him without imposing on others or in turn, allowing others to meddle with His life and its purpose.

We are all confronted everyday with the dilemma of how to reconcile the demands of the world with out inner spiritual needs. If we remember the basic principle of of being true to ourselves whatever the cost and if we adhere to the principle not to deliberately hurt others, and we can find a way which does not damage our integrity and sense of worth. Sri Bhagavan tirelessly stressed the paramount importance of using our life to find who we are. He gave us the priceless gift of the teaching 'Who am I?' for the purpose, If we do remain true to this teaching then its sheer simplicity will guide us. Our individuality will not be crushed.
The flood of desires and demands of consumerism will not swamp us and we will be able to tread the path, however, slowly, in the knowledge that grace is ever available.

concluded.

Ravi said...

Subramanian,
'Instant Culture' is quite an interesting article and seems to capture the timegeist of the present times.
Just like we have 'Dhideer saambaar'(Instant sambhAr-a soup like side dish),'Dhideer Noodles' we seem to have 'Instant Realization' or 'Instant Awakening'.

All effort,striving and aspiration are just not necessary-one has to somehow 'trip' and 'Flip' the mind and make it 'awaken'to the 'ever present' Truth-This seems to be the Mantra.

In the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna ,the Master mentions such a trait:
"Once a man said to me, 'Sir, can you teach me quickly the thing you call samadhi?' (All
laugh.)"

Good article and thanks very much.

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

ON RAMANA MAHARSHI:

Mukesh Vatsyayana:

Advent - 2005: Mountain Path:

On a hot afternoon in Madurai
a 16 year old boy in his room,
on the table of a pile of books and
unfinished homework. Outside, the
sun
an incandescent fury in the sky.
Heat-luminescent streets, dusty
and vacant,
coil around the temple and slither
though the summer shriveled town.
Leaves wear dust to screen out
the sun.
Fat flies drone in the drowsy
doorways.
The 16 year old boy in his study
torn between mastering English
verbs
and puzzling over an arithmetical
sum
looks anxiously out the window and
stops.
A frosty touch benumbs his heart,
his breathing dims.
A bullock cart lurches through the
street. Death --
an uncanny presence steals over
him.
Unfazed he decides to play the
part.
He lies down on the floor, arms
stiff by his side,
tries to stop his breath. He stalks
death,
seizes it, scans it, sifts through
it,
and discards it. He knows. His
boyish frame
shudders as the power outward
bound,
that arrays in splendent hypnotic
hues
this multiformed multinamed
enchantment
which beguiles and captivates
bemused wordlings,
stops, its onward surge arrested,
dashes back
and plunges inward and down into
heart's cavern --
the source that exists past flesh,
past mind,
past world, past gods, past every-
thing, past nothing.

As the presumptuous bubble of ego
collapses
body mind space time causes
conditions
vanish. Only a tiny waverless
flame,
awareness, - pure, poised, ever-
present
remains. An equanimous witness
of the mundane drama of high
passion,
of the birth and death of gods,
demons and men,
the launch of political movements,
bitter strife over oppression and
freedom,
of the ascent and decline of
fathers and fuhrers.

Nothing stirs. The house is quiet
as usual.
Nothing stops. The world as usual
is busy.
In the grocery shop at the local
market
a somnolent trader dully waves a
cloth
to chase away flies on a bed of
jaggery.
Outside in the shade of a gnarled
neem
an asrologer sleeps, his blind
parrot
surveys he sky and pecks at fortune
cards.


continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

ON RAMANA MAHARSHI:

Mukesh Vatsyayana:

continues.....

The globe on its axis turned but
a few degrees
but the boy in the room is a boy
no more.
Infinity has clasped her wings
around him,
school, family, home, parents, and
friends
are but dying echoes of a grandma's
tale.
The world is a remote happening,
a mere rumor.
Ignorance-bearing knot dissolves,
light spreads.
Awake he sheds his radiance on a
thousand suns,
Worlds are awash with the grace
of his glance.

Upon the still center his eyes have
gazed.
gazing up on it, he has turned
still.
When he looks, silence looks
through him.
when he walks, an immobility moves.
Dakshinamurti for the age of trains
and telegrams,
At the foot of Arnachala Ramana
sits
A beggar scattering in the wind
his munificence,
healing aggrieved hearts with a
mere look,
sharing with them the peace only
jnanis know,
guiding the lost on the surest
path home,
inspiring stutterers to rapturous
poetry,
bringing solace to a widow in her
black hovel
and order to spiraling galaxies.

*******

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

The editor has cleverly mentioned all the pitfalls without bringing the name neo-advaita, which says: Self Realization in 2 days!

Subramanian.R

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

(Lesser known temples.)

tiru vali valam = 610 207.

This temple is about 20 kms. from Tiruvarur, on the road to TirutuAip poondi. It is a temple with two levels. On the higher level is Siva's sanctum. Sun god, a sage called kAraN muni and a black sparrow are said to have prayed to Siva here. There is a stream which goes around the three sides of the temple, as if a garland.

Siva is called mana thuNai nAthar, who is the support for the mind. Uma is called vALaiyan kaNNi ammai, one who has got vALai fish like eyes. The tirtham (holy waters) is a tank called Sankara tirtham. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is punnai tree.

Saint Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses in Canon 1. Saint Tiru Navukkarasar has mentioned this temple in 10 of his verses in Canon 6. Saint Sundaramurti has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses in Canon 7.

*******

Subramanian. R said...

HILL OF FIRE:

Monica Bose:

Aradhana 2003, Mountain Path:

Suzanne Alexandra Curtil, known in India as Sujata was born in Paris on 13th December 1896. She was a talented dancer, doctor and diviner. Her quest for Truth began at an early age. When she was eighteen, she joined the Theosophical Society and in 1925, was sent as a delegate from Paris Lodge to the Jubilee Convention held at Adyar, Chennai. At Adyar she met the Swamiji, Sri Jinawansaswamy, a High Priest of the Theravada or Southern Buddhist Order. His specific mission was to revive Buddhism in India. He became her teacher and knowing that with her strong intellect she could help him in his work, he persuaded the Chief High Priests of Ceylon to admit her into the Theravada Order. She became the first Southern Buddhist nun in 800 years.

Soon after she had clad the yellow robe Suzanne was sent to the Himalayan region on an ecumenical mission. In a northern monastery she met and was instructed by the renowned Tibetan Buddhist Master, Tromo Geshe Rinpoche.

In May 1926, she was appointed by the Southern Buddhist authorities as their representative to H.H. Dalai Lama. She was to request him to accept join patronage with the leader of the Southern Buddhist Church. She joined a caravan to Lhasa, traveling in forbidden territory dressed inconspicuously as a Nepali young man. But she did not reach Lhasa, she fell ill and had to return to India.

In 1927, she left her monastic life to marry an Indian army surgeon, Ranjit Sen. She hoped to be guided by him in her work for the poor and suffering of India. But after the birth of their daughter, Monica, the marriage was dissolved. She then returned to the Swamiji. But in 1934, Swamiji died.

At a time of bafflement and distress, Suzanne saw a newspaper article about Sri Ramana Maharshi, the sage of Arunachala whose realization through discriminating intuition had brought back to mankind the reality of the ancient seers. Suzanne went to meet Him in December 1936, along with two other Western ladies.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

HILL OF FIRE:

Monica Bose:

continues.....

As Suzanne made the journey by train to Tiruvannamalai, kilometer after kilometer of arid splendor unfurled before her eyes. She saw tawny earth and tawny hills and giant piles of rocks that were the skeletal remains of ancient mountains. A desert vegetation of thorn scrub and cactus like euphorbia scrabbled for existence in the dry, unrewarding soil. Unexpectedly, there would a copse of tall trees revealing the presence of underground water, the sudden brilliant green of paddy standing waist high, or the mellow gold of mustard fields.

Early in the morning the train slowed as it approached a mountain taller and standing apart from the rest. She did not recognize it at once and thought only that it looked very denuded and ancient. Its soil was eroded and the rocky structure beneath was exposed like the ribs of a skeleton. It was only when they had gone around it and she saw its rugged eastern aspect that she recognized it to be the Hill of Arunachala. In the early sunlight it glowed a fiery red and she remembered that Arunachala was held to be the manifestation of Siva in the form of Fire.

She would learn that the entire Hill is worshipped as a Tejo Lingam, the blazing mark of truth Absolute. Declared in the Skanda Purana to be the secret, sacred Heart Center of Siva, and hence the spiritual center of the world, for centuries it has been a much frequented place of worship and pilgrimage, as well as the abode of saints and sages.

Suzanne and her two companions alighted at the small, neat station of Tiruvannamalai. Outside the station they found a horse drawn cart to take them to the Asramam, which was about five and a half kilometers from the town. Their vehicle took the Big Street, the main residential street of the town, which went up to meet the road skirting the base of the Hill.

The thirteen kilometer long cicumambulatory road first passes between the massive wall of the Lord Arunachaleswara temple on the left, and the majestic Hill on the right. Once the road leaves behind the town and comes to open country, there opens for the traveler the vista of an antique landscape of temples, shrines, sacred tanks and pilgrim halls. Some temples have filigree carved domes; others, more primitive, are of rough-hewn rock. In these simple dolmens the deity is usually not free standing but carved in the solid stone, seeming to emerge only reluctantly into the airy dimension of form. Stone is everywhere in evidence in Tiruvannamalai; from the rock of the Hill itself, through the stone
foundation of the great temple where it has a complex symbology, and the diverse stone shrines with their stone stepped tanks, to the mantapams constructed from massive blocks of granite which have stood the onslaught of the elements for centuries. Without the need of words, the stone transmits to the onlooker the message of the fundamental, full and enduring nature of Being.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

HILL OF FIRE:

Monica Bose:

continues.....

Their vehicle passed a simple stone shrine which was dedicated to Siva as Dakshinamurti, the divine yogi who teaches the ineffable Truth in silence. He is the deity who faces south, and since south is the direction of death, He is also known as Mrutyunjaya, the conqueror of Death. Death, indeed, is conquered by awakening to the ultimate truth of ourselves and the world.

Just after passing the shrine of Dakshinamurti they reached their destination, announced by an archway bearing the words, 'Sri Ramanasramam'. Entering the grounds they dismounted from their vehicle under the big Iluppai tree. To the left there was a pond surrounded by trees, and ahead of them a small whitewashed building which turned out to be the Asramam office. The Maharshi's younger brother Nagasundaram greeted them there. He had changed his name to Niranjananada Swami after taking sannyas, so as to dedicate himself completely to the running of the
Asramam, but most people addressed him as Sarvadhikari or Manager. He asked them a few particulars about themselves and Suzanne gave her name as Sujata. He gave them small pockets of holy ash as Prasadam, then instructed Raja Iyer, the genial postmaster of the Asramam to take them to the Maharshi. They crossed a small courtyard and came to a long hall with all its doors open. They went up a few steps and there, seated before them on a couch, was the Sage of Arunachala.

Suzanne saw a slender, golden skinned man in His late fifties. Except for a loin cloth He was completely bare. She thought that His face was very beautiful, not only because of the brahmin fineness of the features, but above all because it had the highest expression of awareness that she had ever seen. There was about Him a certain indefinable quality; the splendor of Realization perhaps described it best. She saw how the psychological labels which the modern mind tended to affix to spiritual experience turned out to be irrelevant and unworthy when one was confronted with true achievement.

continued.......

Subramanian. R said...

HILL OF FIRE:

Monica Bose:

continues.....

When Raja Iyer introduced them to the Maharshi, He nodded in acknowledgement and for a moment gave them His attention, but did not speak. Suzanne was so engrossed in her contemplation of the Maharshi that at first she did not hear when one of the attendants told them that they would take their place among the women who sat on His left. The men, who were numerous, sat facing Him down the length of the Hall.

The Hall in which they found themselves was simply decorated and furnished. A frieze of blue flowers ran along the walls. A clock hung on what wall facing the devotees. Below it, on a shelf, there were a few tin containers. Presently she saw the Maharshi take some nuts out of one of the containers for squirrel that had run to Him along the back of the couch. Next to the couch was a revolving bookcase and further down the Hall stood two plain wooden cupboards holding more books and a small store of stationery. Little attempt had been made to create a mystical or spiritual background for the Maharshi. The furniture was functional, the surroundings ordinary. Yet the banal setting could not detract from the grandeur of the Sage. He was exceptional first of all in just being Himself. In every action He made, whether He was correcting a manuscript or reading a letter, there was a complete naturalness and absence of pose. This is very rarely seen, for few of those who, being rooted in their true identity, have no need to seek a flattering image of themselves or confirmation of what they are from the impression they make on others.

Once during the morning the Maharshi turned and looked directly at Suzanne. She would write to us about His wonderful gaze, His brilliant eyes shining like stars. She was sure that she had found her Master. At eleven o'clock the Maharshi and the devotees rose and left the Hall, for it was time for main meal of the day. Someone from the Asramam invited Suzanne and the two ladies with her to join others. The meal was served in the communal dining hall where rows of freshly washed plantain leaves had been laid out on the spotlessly clean floor. The Maharshi took His place among the devotees. The brahmins sat on one side of Him and the non brahmins on the other, thus respecting religious customs. The Maharshi though, did not wear the brahmin thread, and she remembered that on arriving in Tiruvannamalai He had thrown away the thread worn by the hereditary sacerdotal caste that indicated superiority over others.

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

HILL OF FIRE:

Monica Bose:

continues......

They were served rice, vegetables, pepper water, and milk-curds. The Maharshi ate very frugally. He asked Suzanne whether the food was not too pungent for them. These words of solicitude were the first words He spoke to her. In the Hall she then joined the devotees who had come to spend the afternoon with the Maharshi. She did not see some of those who had been present in the morning, but several new comers were there. She was surprised to hear that devotees might come into the Hall as early as four o'clock in the morning, though seven o'clock was the time most morning visitors gathered. They spent a few hours with Him, but He was accessible to them all day.

As in the morning, the mood was rather informal. To these pupils aspiring to attain the highest grades of knowledge, the Maharshi apparently did not give any discourses. He replied to questions when they were put to Him, usually very succinctly. As if to let the one word or the few words He said make their way directly into the understanding of the questioners. On the other hand, when a young man struggled to grasp what the Self was, the Maharshi with great patience guided him though His reasoning until at last he got some glimmering of what the Maharshi meant. Of course, the answer to the nature of the Self is only to be found on the intuitive level, but the breakthrough of intuition can be hampered by faulty reasoning. Apart from these exceptions to silence, there were long quiet moments when the Maharshi said and did nothing, but which were more effective in conveying transcendent Truth than any lecture or sermon wold have been. The afternoon ended with a twenty minutes break.

The Maharshi and the devotees gathered in the Hall again at 5 o'clock for the evening session. Suzanne found that the atmosphere now was quite different; much more solemn and charged with more energy than earlier on in the day. First there was the recitation of the Vedas by a group of young brahmin
boys and their preceptor. As the powerful Sanskrit syllables vibrated in the Hall, the Maharshi's appearance underwent a remarkable change. His expression became austere, His gaze turned inwards. His face appeared translucent as if lit by inner illumination, whilst the constant slight trembling of His body which Suzanne had noticed earlier, had now completely stopped. Yet even in this state, it was evident that He was not oblivious of His surroundings, and that He had an awareness of both the inner and outer reality. Suzanne was to write about her impression of the Maharshi in these words: "He is an Adept of the Highest Order, a king of Yogis. The splendor of His Realization radiates like a sun....Robed in ether His Yogic powers are unique, subtle and rare. He lifts you far above the world."

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

HILL OF FIRE:

Monica Bose:

continues.....

After the Vedas, the devotees sang together a hymn to Arunachala. Then they sat in deep silence, capturing the force emanating from their Master, a force so strong as to be almost tangible. To her surprise she now saw all the women rise, and after prostrating to the Maharshi file out of the Hall. She did not go with them. One of the men came and explained to her that the Asramam management and explained to her that the Asramam management had made the rule that women must leave the Asramam before 6.30 pm. so that they return home before dark. She protested that she was not afraid of dark and asked to be allowed to stay as long as the men. The Sarvadhikari, alerted that there was some trouble in the Hall, arrived and told her himself that the Asramam rules must be respected. The Maharshi did not intervene at any time during this incident.

Very upset, Suzanne left the Hall. She found her two friends from Adyar waiting for our outside. They looked dejected because they had just found that there was no guesthouse for women at the Asramam and they would have to find some accommodation in town. They tried to persuade her to go with them, but since she refused they left without her. Suzanne declared to the small group of Asramites who were trying to pacify her, that since she could not stay at the Asramam she would go and spend the night on the Hill!

She climbed some way up the Hill and without difficulty found a cave in which to shelter. She entered its dark interior, in spite of her bravado, a little afraid of finding herself confronted by some wild animal. But she was alone. She had meant to spend the night in meditation, but it was impossible for her to meditate so great was her feeling of indignation at what had happened. Meeting a true Master had been the event she had longed for and she had so much hoped to receive some indication from Him that He had accepted her as His disciple. Instead, at what had been the most significant moment of the day for her, she had been made to leave His presence because she was a woman, which in this society obviously meant someone weak and inferior. The incident aroused in her an old impulse to revolt against exclusion because of arbitrarily determined inferiority, a reaction which went back to her student days when more than once she had been indignant at the unfair discrimination against women. In fact, the feeling went still further back to her early childhood when she had first understood that her parents valued her less than her brother and that, whatever she might do, she would never be able to take his place in their pride and affection. It was strange that on her very first day with the Maharshi her oldest pain and anger should have risen to the surface.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

HILL OF FIRE:

Monica Bose:

continues.....

Her anger drove all other thoughts from her mind. It was then that she had a vision of Arunachala as a Hill of Fire. In its many caves, siddhas or realized beings in their pure and invulnerable bodies sat or moved unharmed in the flames. In her vision she was taken into the Hill and passed through its fire but felt no fear, no pain. And she saw many worlds existing within the Hill, in a series of extraordinary revelations.

Sometime afterwards, she confided what she had seen to another devotee, Mrs. Lucia Osborne. At the time Mrs. Osborne did not think it was important, but a few years later when another person reported a similar experience, she asked the Maharshi about it. As she would write in her editorial in the January 1974 issue of the Asramam journal, Mountain Path, 'Sujata was taken into the Hill and found a whole universe there. When I asked the Maharshi if it could be so, He replied, "Yes", and then added "The Hill is the Heart."

While Suzanne was on the Hill that night, the Maharshi, knowing that there were wild animals such as cheetahs, leopards and jackals on its slopes, asked Mr. Cohen, a former Theosophist who had known her at Adyar, to go and persuade her to come down. When Mr. Cohen and his party found her she was calm, being still under the influence of her wondrous vision. Without further protest she agreed to spend the rest of the night in a hotel room in town.

The next day, she came to the Asramam somewhat embarrassed by her impulsive action and wondering whether she could be reprimanded for it. But the Maharshi did not say anything about it. When somebody asked to take a photograph of the Maharshi with the foreign devotees at the Asramam, He agreed, although He did not always agree to be photographed. Seeing that Suzanne hung back a little diffidently, He made a sign to her that she was to join them. In this photograph, the devotees are grouped before Arunachala as if forming a Hill with the Maharshi at the center.

This is the last photograph in which Suzanne appears clad in the Buddhist robe, for she stopped wearing in shortly afterwards. In Bangalore, and in the Buddhist monasteries in the north where she had been accepted unquestioningly as a Buddhist nun, she had not felt self conscious when wearing the habit. Here, in this predominantly Hindu milieu, her Buddhist robe was not understood and as a result she felt self conscious and on the defensive. The Maharshi did not ask her to stop wearing it. That was not His way. There were never any dictates from Him. His teachings did not lay down rules of conduct. They provided guidance as to how to achieve selflessness which was the basis of Realization. She had read some of His teachings before coming to Tiruvannamalai and had grasped enough to know that in the quest which required the abandonment of all thought of self, there was no place for self consciousness or even for self defense.

concluded.

Anonymous said...


beautiful....Ranjit Maharaj

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEdwW1SF1EQ

Subramanian. R said...

Dear All,

DARSHAN OF LORD OF FIRE:

I had been to Tiruvannamlai for 4 days from 10th Sept. and returned only this evening at 6.00 pm. The trip was excellent with one or two
new delightful experiences. About them later. Since there were no rains in Tiru. Asramam did not give permission for many to visit in June, July and August. Rains have come at last in Tiru. and water position has improved since September. So permission was given
to visit the Asramam from Sept.

Azhagammai Tirtham is half full.
Pali Tirtham is almost full. Peacocks and monkeys are back. The Asramam has got a new look. Nevertheless the power situation in guest houses are bad with frequent
unscheduled power cuts lasting even for 3 hours at a stretch. There are power cuts even at midnight affecting the devotees's sleep. Even this, I hope would soon become normal. Inside the Asramam, there is generator supply of power and hence Asramam is the oasis.

Subramanian. R

Subramanian. R said...

Darshan of the Lord of Fire:

continues:

On Day 1, Monday, we went early to the Samadhi Hall and had darshan of Milk Puja for Sri Ramaneswara Lingam. After touching the arri on to our eyes, we came around the Samadhi and took, milk prasadam, given through a uddharani. Then the bell rang for breakfast and adjourned for breakfast. We came back to the room, Achalam, AA 3. The powercut was looming large it might start at anytime from 3 pm. At 3 pm. we rushed out of the room and reached the Hall, There plesant surprise was a awaiting in Amma's temple. A group five or six ladies and gents were chanting Ribu Gita.
Chapter 11 AND 12. As one lady started with two likes.and the rest were chanting the other four lines.

This is called MuRRothal, Complete Chanting. They are supposed to complete the entire work in about 20 days. We also joined them and sang till 4 p.m. Then tea break was there. After tea break, they resume
till 5 pm. and break again for Arti Mothers temple and Samadhi Hall. Then they again resume till dinner.

On Day 2, it was special. It was Punravasu star day. Elaborate abhiskehm and alnakaram and a atri
were done from 10 am to 11.am. The
abhishekam was with water, coconut water, vibuhti, sandal paste, milk and honey and finally again with water. Then there alankaram, with a variety of flowers, and thee arti was performed. The group then adjuourned for lunch.

At 3 pm. we rushed to amma temple and listened to Ribhu Gita chanting. It was Chapters 13 and 14. Then there was tea break. Book reading was from Sri Ramaanarin Anmikaa Ponm mozhigal. (tamizh rendering of Arthur Osbornes' TeacchThe Teachings of Ramana Maharshi'in His Own Words. The tamizh renderiin has been done by La.su. Rangarajan. The English book reading was from Letters from Sri Ramanasramam, Suri Nagamma.

In the evening, as there was elaborate puja in the morning, simple arti was shown to Sri Ramanesawara Mahalingam

On day 1, the parayana was Sri
Arunachala Stuti Panchakam, and on Day 2. (Tuesday), it was Upadesa Undiyar and Ulladu Narpadu. We attended this and then adjourned for dinner.

That night was the great 'testing for body consciousness. Power went off between 10 pm top 11 pm. Again between 12 midnight to 2 am. And again from, 3 am to 6.0 am.
In the stuffy atmosphere of the room, I began to develop fever and body ache.

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

DARSHAN OF LORD OF FIRE:

On Day 3, when we woke up in the morning around 5 a.m. the fever continued unabdated. We thought with my knee pain aggravated by the weak body, it was not worthwhile, to go the Big Temple. We prayed in our hearts that Mother Unnamulai abd Father Annamalai should forgive us.

WE went inside the Asramam, after quickly covering girivalam, partly by car and partly by foot. We
could not see all the Lingams too. In about 1 and a half hours, we came back to the Asramam to see the arti etc., of Matrubheteswara Lingam and Sri Ramaneswara Maha Lingam. After arti we adjourned for lunch. When we came back to the room, the power cut would start at 2 pm. So we stayed in the room for about two hours. Then at 2 pm., we proceeded to Mother's Temple, and sat for Ribhu Gita. The chanting continued from 3 pm to 3.30 pm. covering two more chapters, 13 and 14.

Then I sat for book reading, my wife alone went for tea. Since I had no appetite or desire to take tea, I sat for book reading., The book readings continued, Sri Ramana Maharshiyin Anmika Pon Mozhigal and Letters from Sri Ramanasramam.

Then we sat for arti to Sri Ramaneswara Mahalingam. Befoer that, we went into the book stall and bought 2013, Calendar and Diary 2013. I bought two book viz., Guru Ramana Vacahana Mala in English, by Laskhamana Sarma and The Technique of Maha Yoga, by Narayna Iyer.

We sat then for Arti for Mother's Temple and for Sriramaneswaa Mahalingam.

The parayana at 6.30 was Devi Kalottaram and Appala Pattu, Atma Vidya Kirthanam and Ekanma Panchakam.

After parayana we adjourned for dinner.

Power cuts were threatening us. We entered the room and the power was there! It lasted up to 9 p.m. and then went off at 12 midnight but came back at 1.00 am! We had reasonably good sleep.

continued.....

Soorya said...

Does anyone know if the matter discussed in the article in the below site was ever discussed in this blog, I have a feeling like it was mentioned but not able to remember when and by whom.

Ramakrishna Paramahansa - God-Intoxicated Saint

http://www.mountainrunnerdoc.com/articles/article/2291157/31005.htm.

A vedantic scholar V.S Iyer was of the opinion that Ramana Maharshi was of lesser stature , whose teaching of finding the source of the "I-thought" as the Self within was not complete philosophic truth. Iyer felt that inquiring "What is the world?" and "What am I?" were a better approach than Ramana's "Who am I?", and led to realization of self and world, first as ideas, then finally as Brahman (Mind), whereas "Who am I?" alone led to an exclusive subjective realization more characteristic of a mystic than a sage.

I am not clear what is the indescrepancy he finds in Bhagavan's teaching where one tries to find out 'Who am I' before 'What is the world'. And how can enquiring 'What is the world' bring about the realization that it is nothing but ideation? Doesnt one need to go beyond ideas/mind to stand apart from ideas and see them for what they are. Maybe Iyer doesnt understand Bhagavan's teaching properly, but it confuses me when Hollerman goes on to say that Bhagavan had a second awakening at the age of 32 and hence his initial teaching of 'Who am I' doesnt lead to the ultimate truth! Because he himself had to gain more understanding by the second awakening!But Bhagavan never changed his teaching right up to the end - I am not at all sure what the article points at. If anyone is able to throw light on this, I would be very happy.

Subramanian. R said...

Day 4, was a definitely a better day
We proceed to the Asramam for milk
puja. After receiving milk prasadam,
we had come out. A pleasant chanting for Tiruvachakam was going was heard. On coming near Mother's Temple we found in the notice board, that
Tiruvachakam and Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai, muRRodhal had started from 6 am. We joined the group and chanted Tiruvachakam. This group is from Tiruk kazhuk kunRam, with their nice publication Tiruvachakam. They gave one copy of the book to each participant. It
had already started, and when we joined they are in Neethal Vinnappam. We sang with them and came up to SetthilAp pathu, when we had to break for lunch. We took leave of them and said that we are getting back to Bangalore.

After lunch, we came back to the room, packed our things and drove back to Bangalore.

This MuRRodhal is continued up to coming Sunday. On Thursday, they complete Tiruvachakam. From Friday to Sunday, they take up Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai.

The trip was good but for heat and powercuts.

****

Soorya said...

Please remove the dot after .htm in the weblink.
The correct link is:
http://www.mountainrunnerdoc.com/articles/article/2291157/31005.htm

hey jude said...

I have no ideas who Iyer is.
But who am I is what Ramana taught.
Who am I is the primal, fundamental question, as you cannot count without the number one.

Ravi said...

soorya,
The article by Peter Holleran on Sri Ramakrishna is just a cocktail of ideas drawn from unreliable sources.
V S Iyer's ideas and yardstick of JnAna are again his own idiosyncrasies only.If I have to go by V S Iyer's idea of what jnAna is and what philosophical enquiry is-please refer to his commentaries Volume 1 from this site:
http://wisdomsgoldenrod.org/publications/
I find them pretty childish to say the least.
It also makes me wonder as to how Sri Ramakrishna Mutt,Belur chose this person to train its monks -Swamis NikhilAnanda,MAdhavAnanda,Shraddhananda and a few others were sent to Mysore to study VedAnta under the tutelage of V S Iyer.
It also baffles me that V S Iyer was a disciple of Sri Narasimha BhArati Swami,revered Sankaracharya of Sringeri!V S Iyer also made some critical remarks on another great jnAni,Sri Chandrasekhara Bharati,the successor to Sri NarAsimha BhArati.

To the credit of V S Iyer,there is this story about him:
"V. Subrahmanya Iyer, however, was not just a dry philosopher, but
also a devotee. Swami Shraddhananda often quoted the pundit saying
“Sri Ramakrishna was the greatest philosopher of all time” and that
“none of the direct disciples understood Sri Ramakrishna’s depth but
Swami Vivekananda.” When Mysore devotees travelled north to
Calcutta, they asked the Pundit if they could bring him any souvenir.
He replied, “Bring me a twig from the Panchavati”-- the wooded
wilderness area along the Ganges in the Dakshineswar Temple
compound where Sri Ramakrishna lived and meditated. The pundit,
although a householder, lived the philosophy he taught."
(Please refer:http://vedanta.org/vs/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Ashtavakra-Samhita-Study-notes-of-Swami-Shraddhananda.pdf).

Now coming to your question as to what Peter Holleran meant as the second Death experience,please read this article:
http://www.mountainrunnerdoc.com/page/page/5213285.htm

These again are his own cocktail of 'ideas' only.

These sort of articles ,to me ,are at best classified as Yellow journalism.They are of little value.

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

(Lesser known temples.)

tiruk kaichinam - (Kachanam) 610 201.

This temple can be reached from Tiruvarur, by a town bus. Indra is said to have prayed to Siva here, by making a Lingam with sand. When
puja was over he took the sand Lingam and placed it inside the temple. At that time, marks of his fingers were seen in the Lingam.

Siva is called Kaichina Nathar. Uma is called VeL vaLai ammai. Saint
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 10 of his verses, in Canon 2.

The tirham (holy waters) is a tank called Vajra tirtham. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is kongu tree.

******

Soorya said...

Ravi,

Many thanks for your reply. Needless to say I felt the same about Iyer's writings, that they are his own idiosyncrasies, surprisingly childish with not a tinge of investigation into what really is Bhagavan's teaching. But as you mentioned, what really surprised me was he was being quoted by and used as reference by Holleran, this led to the assumption that Iyer must be someone who is widely respected in the Advaita/Vedanta realm. I had read the second article 'the lost years of Ramana Maharshi' and couldnt stop smiling :) .

Especially this statement : "If Maharshi had a proper guru and not the mad Seshadri who was his guru but an incompetent one, he would have been told, "You now realize that the world is an idea." "So go and live amongst others, keeping your insight all the time. it is not necessary to remain in solitude any longer."

There is an English quote which goes on something like 'It is better to keep quiet and be regarded as a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt'! :)

But someone who has only read about Bhagavan Ramana amongst scores of other sages and saints could very well get deluded by his article.Of late I read a 'modern' Advaita guru state in Facebook that awakening is a process, that even Ramana had a second death experience in his 30's (like him!). And after sometime I came across this Holleran article, felt bit indignant about how people spread inaccurate things out of their own ignorance.I didnt know about V.S Iyer until I read this article, and I am as surprised as you are that RK mutt sent their monks to train under Iyer.RK mutt nowadays sadly has very few monks and more of intellectuals and scholars and we can see the reason why, isnt it? It is not easy to live up to a Swami Vivekananda or Sri Ramakrishna.

No wonder Sri Bhagavan continuously persisted that 'the Self cannot be found in books'.

Again, thank you so much for your reply.

Subramanian. R said...

All Commotion Eclipsed by Mighty
Tsunami of Silence:

Kristal Forest:

These are my headlines for Jayanti at Sri Ramanasramam this 125th year. Yes it is a bustling tourist energy here in Tiruvannamalai in December and January 2005. A Japanese tourist was overheard complaining in a local tea stall that the energy was not good for meditating. An American woman here on her first visit, said that Sri Ramana's Peace was hard to find in the Old Hall with the tourist's cell phones going off and sometimes
getting answered too. Huge numbers of bodies moving in and out of that well made screen door; and families from every part of India filling the Asramam.

So I found myself a protester to these occasional comments in the restaurants and coffee cafes. I tried various responses from a humorous 'Ramana still lives here' to a more subtle suggestion that we just had to go deeper beneath the commotion. And I found that most of the dedicated meditators who chose the Old Hall, as their principal retreat for sitting agreed. The surface noise on any normal day will include the screeching of air horns from trucks and buses on the main road, conversations occurring in many languages outside and around the Hall, cellphone musicals, children crying, parts of roofs and buildings blowing in the wind, doors slamming, peacocks calling and many songs and chants offered in the echoing temple next door. Yet, I found that usually after a brief settling with the pillows and walls as back rest, and a simple turning inwards all distractions were eclipsed by the mighty pull of the Silence in that narrow room with the black slated floor.

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

All Commotion Eclipsed by the Mighty
Tsunami of Silence:

Kristal Forest:

(Deepam 2005, of Mountain Path)

continues.....

Another question I heard discussed was, from where does the Silence arise? From the mountain; from the couch where Sri Bhagvan lived, slept emanated His Grace for years; from he walls of Old Hall where many people in Sri Ramana's lifetime were guided to the land of liberation and freedom from our own minds? These questions can afford a lot of coffee time conversations that go on and on and I heard many and drank too much coffee over them. Finally, I can only offer my own small raindrop of experience to add to the accounts of many persons visiting the Asramam.

It was the eve before Jayanti 2004-05. All preparations seemed to be complete. The metal roof had gone up quickly next to the dining hall where thousands would be fed. A flap of metal from the roof near the Old Hall banged in the breeze that afternoon and evening, a bit like gong announcing the beginning of an even. The evening had a feeling of expectancy and excitement.

I walked in to the Hall as I have done every evening for two months
around 6 pm. The evening chanting was getting ready to begin for
Thursday programme. These morning and evening chanting sessions are a great gift to the meditator doing self inquiry. These magnificent sounds seem to pour of the walls themselves or from sublime heavenly
visitation as they cannot been seen from meditation hall.


continued......

Ravi said...

Surya/Friends,
Here is V S Iyer's pointed criticism of Sri Bhagavan's 'Who am I'-We do not know which version/translation he had before him.

Criticism of Ramana

Maharishi's "Who Am I?
Page 4 para. 3: If mind is same as Atman, how can it vanish? How can Atman vanish?
Page 6 (middle) "Whenever any thought leads you outward" etc, says Maharishi. What can you
be certain of when you leave the external world? And why leave the world if you say everything
is Brahman?
Page 6. "Mind ceases to struggle" Yes, if I commit suicide I shall also cease to struggle! How
can you say the world ceases to exist if you don't look at it?
page 6 last para: Who has seen the subtle mind projecting through the brain and the senses? Can
you see it? Is not brain also a piece of gross matter? Then how can it come into existence after
the world is created, if latter, depends on brain.
Page 7 top. How can you say the world vanishes when you are introspected? The world is still
there; whether you see it or not.
Page 7. Line 4. Heart is an idea created by mind, so how can Mind emerge from it?
Page 11, Para 2. "One should unquestioningly follow guru"--This is the very reverse of what Sri
Ramakrishna taught. What if the guru happens to be a fool or a rascal? Sri Ramakrishna said
"Test me!”
210
Page 12: middle: "In deep sleep, trance, swoon, mind turns inwards and enjoys atmasukam."
Why should any man study or inquire or practice if in sleep he can easily get the Atman? If sleep
gives Brahman why trouble with Vedanta?
Page 16 middle: "If this truth is appreciated who can refrain from being good?" This is opposite
of real Vedanta. Vedanta says it is not enough to be good, you must serve the world and relieve
suffering.
Page 16 last para. Is the vanishing of ego to be the end of life? Aham, I must indeed go but
tuham (thou) must come, you must know Brahman is everywhere. It is only half to say ego must
vanish. This is only a step, not highest. Gita 4/34 on this point says you must see all in you.
Ramana Maharishi's teaching is most useful to those seeking peace, for those whose minds are
disturbed, but not for seekers of truth.
I have the highest reverence for the Maharishi as being possibly a unique specimen of absolute
purity and unworldliness and desirelessness, but that does not make him a Gnani."

Elsewhere he says:
""Who Am I?" is theological, and better avoided, whereas "What Am I” is strictly
philosophical and to be preferred.

He(Sri Bhagavan) has picked up a number of Sanskrit words here and there, but unfortunately he
has not properly learnt Sanskrit. Hence he makes an error when telling Mr. Bose that the realized
man has his mind destroyed. The correct meaning is that the activities of the mind are put a stop
to; but the mind itself cannot be destroyed."

Regarding 'Who Am I?' V S Iyer says:
"Whoever begins with the question "Who Am I" falls into the same trap that Ramana Maharishi
fell into. The point is, how does this question arise at all. You must start with the universe first
and then only after the question "What is the world" is answered should you deal with the
question "Who am I". This is the natural order of inquiry because unprejudiced minds such as
children or coolies always begin with asking about the world first. (See Panchadesi P.141, verse
12)"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
continued...

Ravi said...

Surya /Friends,
V.S Iyer's criticism of 'Who Am I?' continued...

Here V S Iyer is referring to Paul Brunton's earlier writings and before he wrote his book 'Hidden Teaching Beyond Yoga':
"There is no such thing as “Philosophical Mysticism.” All you can say of your former writings is
they were “advanced” or “enlightened" mysticism.
We must ask ourselves the question “What does life in the universe signify?"
Man is primarily interested in himself. Hence, to get him started on a higher quest we advise him
to go to the root of his own self, i.e. to ask "Who Am I?" This is a mystic formula. When as a
later consequence of this mystic practice he gets more impersonal we teach him to go to the root
of all existence, i.e. to ask "What is the Meaning of the World?"
Truth is “What is this world” “What Am I” “What is the meaning of life as a whole?"
In the old times Vedanta was taught, not by putting a pupil in a cave and telling him to sit quiet,
but by taking him to a peepul tree and by breaking a seed off, and showing it to the pupil and
breaking it into smaller and smaller fragments and pointing out to him the wonder of a great
living tree growing out of the seed. Thus the chela was shown the objective world first, and
taught to question about it.
All is self. We cannot get away from body or thoughts. They are part of us, so is the world of our
life. Hence need to understand world, if we want ultimate truth."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have given these above excerpts to invite some active participation from readers who are dormant for quite some time!It also will help firm up our understanding to face the criticism fairly and squarely,and see if it can serve to clear cobwebs in our approach to the spiritual quest,if any:-)

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

All Commotion Eclipsed by Mighty Tsunami;

continues...

On this Thursday evening, I came in with nothing much in my head and there was a seat empty on the wall facing north towards Arunachala. Normally I sat facing east looking to Bhagavan's couch. I sat down, closed by eyes, noticed that I was facing the Hill like massive fire wind that burned away all thoughts. I hadn't even began concentrating when I simply gone. A blazing light alone remained. Words begin to fail at these points in mystical experiences because thoughts are not there. I felt that I was seeing the Hill as it really was a massive consuming fire and light Being an experienced mediator, I made no efforts to understand or to watch the mind. I was consumed. Later, it seemed a few thought flickered by like 'Wow I should have faced the north before.' Then the word or idea 'submit' which the Maharshi often used, arose with one last urge and again merging. I was very much in bliss, and I had no idea of anything. The Presence was.
Then I saw him leaving the Hall. The tall long limbs, slender golden brown but radiating. He walked out of the screen door and turned towards the tank. At that moment a terrific chorus of peacock cries arose together. Now I was back in the mind and I thought, they have seen Him too and greeted Him.

I was returning to the body consciousness and tears were streaming down my face. I thought that Ramana has found an astral body and made him Birthday visit.

Subramanian. R said...

All Commotion eclipsed by Mighty Tsuuami of Silence:

continues....

The next day, the crowds packed all
Asramam's passageways and buildings, every nook and cranny. They closed the gates and doors on the Temple. I have never seen so many people in the Asramam. Obviously, it was my first Jayanti. I was horrified when I realized all those people were staying to eat. Z
thought that I wouldn't take up a place and looked to exit but there was no escaping as the crowd pressed on toward the dining area beneath Arunachala's slopes. So I filed peacefully to my banana leaf, the meal was elegantly and calmly cooked and served oh so efficiently. No one left felt rushed but all were satisfied. We even got lovely deserts. I was very amazed and thought to myself, this Asramam has excelled to a mastery level in serving delicious food to large numbers. I know it could not have happened in the west, where chaos would have reigned after a
few hundred. So this was a manifestation of Sri Bhagavan's wish to feed all. It was again His amazing Grace. Each was satisfied according to his need, all those who ate that day.

I hope that visitors who may doubt Sri Ramana' continued presence, and His form appearing from to time if not always as the Hill will find more patience and gave it another try. Yes. I have heard Tiruvannamalai described as a spiritual circus and certainly there are monkeys, peacocks, sadhu clowns and vendors of all kinds along with much garbage in the dust. As an American woman I would love to see the pradakshina road in front of the Asramam free of screeching trucks and buses, driving too fast, endangering lives. This and the garbage are the two things that I would remedy if I could as they do not honor the profound Sakti of Presence here. I can hear my local friends protesting that is is Maya, a dream world, so just leave it alone. As a westerner my response is, 'Yes. All is the Self and if you can find the presence in the garbage and dead bodies, then you are FREE. But the many pilgrims coming here from all over the world are looking for upliftment, inspiration and a glimpse of the sublime form.'

concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Destiny And Free Will:

P.Sridharan:

Deepam 2003, Mountain Path:

For spiritual aspirants like us, whichever path we traverse, there are certain vexatious questions that bother us. These questions, are fundamental and defy easy answers or solutions, for the simple reason that there can be any number of arguments, for and against any particular answer or solution. One such puzzling issue is the role and influence of destiny and freewill in our lives. Perhaps most spiritual aspirants will agree that both destiny and freewill have a role in our life. But what should be our attitude towards life in view of the effects of destiny and to what extent can we exercise our free will? Where do we draw line? I think all of us would have faced this dilemma at crucial stages in our life. Though scriptural texts have tried to answer these question, aspirants like us face problems in understanding the purport of these statements and actually trying to put them into practice.

To try to solve a fundamental problem, it is necessary for us to understand the problem itself, to go to very root of it. If we search for answer that would satisfy our own mind. The problems will certainly not be solved.

continued...

Subramanian. R said...

Destiny and Free Will

P. Sridharan:

continues....

Newton's third law of motion states that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. It thus follows that science has understood and accepted the law of karma or destiny at least as far as the physical aspects of life are concerned. However, science has failed to explore whether there could be any possibility of the physical law being applied to the realm Consciousness. Science, therefore is as yet unwilling to accept the effects of destiny, and at the end and natural result of actions. If the physical side of life has to obey certain cardinal principles and can be subject to reaction and destiny, obviously the psychological side should also be subject to certain laws and destiny.

According to Hindu religious lore, the entire universe is a divine drama in which each of us is allotted our respective role to play. The Lord, Ishwara, is the ultimate authority who decides on the effects and fruits of individual karma. Apparently we do not have much to choose other than play our allotted roles in life well, without desire and dedicating the fruits of our actions, to the Lord. All scriptures recommend this course. But does this happen? Hardly. It is easier said than done and it seem more so in the case of spiritual aspirants.

Now let us try to find out what destiny actually is and how it affects us. All of us have desires. Desire arises out of attachment towards kith and kin, towards, our work and our possessions. The source of desire is thought itself. A thought creates sensation, sensation creates desire, desire creates motive and the will top choose among what is available, and the will to possess the object of desire. We work towards the fulfillment of our desires and expect adequate returns for our efforts. When we desire and expect adequate returns for our efforts. When we desire an object and we never think of the doer. We are not aware of the Self during the operation of a desire. It is only the mind that is feverishly at work. We want to desperately possess the object. Without putting our heart and soul into the task at hand, into our duty as best as possible, we worry about its consequences, the results that it might bring. We want to succeed but we do not know whether we will succeed, whether we will be rewarded or not. Fear of failure, dominates our thoughts. Between the accomplishment of our work and the time when the action bears fruit, is a time of great anxiety. There is no peace. Whether we want to build a house or want a promotion or buy a car, the mind works in much the same fashion. It therefore follows that destiny is created for oneself by one's actions which are in turn born out of thought. Thus, the thought is the fundamental source of destiny.

continued......

Soorya said...

Ravi,

Most of this statements are outright stupid and just reveal his ignorance of Vedanta or Sri Bhagavan's teaching. I do feel that even a westerner with no background in Vedanta can answer almost all of his challenges if he reads the talks with ramana maharshi and understands the import of Maharshi's words through intellect and contemplation.

page 6 last para: Who has seen the subtle mind projecting through the brain and the senses? Can
you see it? Is not brain also a piece of gross matter? Then how can it come into existence after
the world is created, if latter, depends on brain.

- My understanding is that the brain and the world rise simultaneously as ideas, Iyer's confusion in this case as in many other questions is he believes external phenomena as apart from the perceiver. According to him there is a personal reality(which he calls Atman) and then there is another one called an external world.Being an ardent fan of Sri Ramakrishna and Swami Vivekananda, perhaps he gets his idea from Swami Vivekananda's lectures/writings, I remember reading in Swamiji's writings he speaks of the soul of man, Atman as being infinite - it is not clear whether this means if Swamiji meant that Atman is a subset of Paramatman, but that of course is not possible because he himself says that if something is infinite, one cannot take anything out of it and it doesnt remain infinite anymore :). I have not read Sri Ramakrishna's teachings much, but have read Swami Vivekananda widely.

Page 16 middle: "If this truth is appreciated who can refrain from being good?" This is opposite
of real Vedanta. Vedanta says it is not enough to be good, you must serve the world and relieve
suffering.

- Here what Iyer means by 'good' and what Sri Bhagavan means by 'good' are two different things. In Iyer's understanding 'being good' is the result of understanding Vedanta(intellectually), of the oneness of life etc and doing good to all beings as an act of compassion. This is traditionally what all religions teach, to develop all virtues before one 'qualifies' to attain God. This is where Sri Bhagavan drops the bomb shell :). His idea of being good is not a 'forced' act of serving an outside world due to an intellectual understanding, but a spontaneous reaction which arises out of sincere enquiry and grace and I am sure all those who have been successful in experiencing the subsidence of ego-feeling atleast to some extent, by Self Enquiry knows by experience what I am talking about. This can never be understood by a theorist like Iyer who jumps the gun :)).If one persists in enquiry and abidance, it is also experienced that things get done by themselves without our worrying meddling minds planning for them all the time. All this can be understood only by experience not by reading which is where Iyer is trapped in.

Soorya said...

I have always faced this question about the 'suffering' in the world, the external world is so complex that the physicists, biologists, astronauts etc etc are left amazed at the super'intelligence' which creates and maintains the whole design. In Max Planck's words it must be a very superior mind. So the question is, if such a power exists which can work at the subtlest levels of a mitochondria or protein or an atom, to make it work according to complex rules and also provide each organism what it needs with ever so gentle a touch that any mother would envy, why would it ignore when some of it's creations were in physical or mental pain? The answer is what Sri Bhagavan gives us - 'The One who created the world knows what to do with it, let him worry' :). It is so funny even to suggest that we tiny humanbeings(as long as we identify as humanbeings) who dont even know how our bodies/minds function can 'help' or 'reform' the world!:)We dont even know what Nature's grand scheme is...
I know this is something which Swami Vivekananda asked to do - doing good. But he also mentioned that it is of temporary stature only, you relieve a man of his hunger today, he is hungry again tomorrow - there is no end to it. Sri Bhagavan's medicine is the ultimate, get rid of the ignorance and all suffering is gone permanently. The idea of 'doing good' can boost one's ego to great heights,also it can induce the idea that one has to 'do something' to be perfect, it can also be 'sacrilege' because it means the Creator doesnt know his job and I do better than him :).
I wonder what Sri RK Mutt would comment to that :).
Of course a sincere seeker will automatically try to remove suffering whenever he sees it, without anyone telling him, because it will hurt him to be aware of another's suffering and he cant help being what he is.

Subramanian. R said...

Dear soorya, Ravi,

We do not even know how many cells are there in our brain and what is the nature of our mind. Whereas in CERN, they are trying to find God's
particle. 'When ignorance is bliss, it is folly to be wise!'

Subramanian. R

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

(Lesser known temples.)

tirup poovanur - 612 803.

This temple is about 3 kms. from Needamangalam. Nowadays it is called Pushpa Vanam. Siva is called Pushpavana Nathar. Uma is called Kalpaga Valli. The holy waters (tirtham) are a tank called Karungazhi tirtham. The Sthala Viruksham (temple tree) is Jackfruit tree.

The shrine of Chamundeeswari is quite famous. Every Sunday, the priest gives a thread after special puja to Chamundeeswari, which is said to cure snake and insect bites and fever arising out of such sting.

Saint Tiru Navukkarsar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses in Canon 5.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Manikkavachagar in Tiruvannamalai:

Monica Bose:

(Deepam 2005, Mountain Path).

Although he is said to have lived at least 12 centuries ago, Manikkavachagar, the Saivite poet, saint and Sage, has left us a precious legacy of hymns in Tiruvachakam, the Divine Utterances, that still strike a deep chord in many people, not just in Tamizh Nadu but worldwide. His songs addressed to Lord Siva have, from remote times, helped those who seek for spiritual salvation, showing the way through love to the happiness and peace of the Kingdom of God, which is within us.

Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi regarded Manikkavachagar as one of the greatest devotional poets of all time. During His saintly mother's last moments, Sri Bhagavan instructed His devotees to chant the entire Tiruvachakam which ends with the poet's final blissful absorption in the Lord.

The Five Hymns to Sri Arunachala composed by Sri Bhagavan are in the same ancient devotional genre, however the hymns of Manikkavachagar vividly recount the different moments of his personal progression, from the most poignant state of desolation when he felt the Lord had withdrawn His Presence from him, to rapturous joy when he felt the Lord had entered his body and soul and made him His own. (Kovil Tirupadigam - last verse).

Manikkavachagar's paeans are overflowing with his spontaneous love for the Lord. Sri Bhagavan too in His hymns to Arunachala, sings of the abounding love in His heart for the Beloved. Asked how He, an advaitin, could speak of love for Arunachala, Sri Bhagavan, a true Jnani, replied that there was no duality in this, for 'Pure Love is the Self Itself. God is Love.' As Thomas Merton comments, 'It is Love loving in Love.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

Manikkavachagar in Tiruvannamalai:

continues....

Manikkavachagar treats birds, bees and insects as fellow songsters who, like himself, sing of their love for the Lord. They are perhaps the souls of devotees liberated by their love for they evidently have free access to the Lord, since the poet exhorts his little friend kuyil (koel) 'to go call Him to come.' But much more frequently Manikkavachagar mentions the Feet of the Lord, symbol of the enslavement of the over of God. For it is through enslavement to Him that the true freedom is found. He sings in adoration:

Obeisance to the flowery feet,
Obeisance to the golden flowers
which enslave us
That way we may be redeemed!

(Tiruvembavai - Verse 20)

(Tr. Pathway to God, G. Vanmika Nathan, Sri Kasi Mutt, Tiruppanandal.)

Two of Maniikkavachagar's most beautiful and inspiring hymns in Tiruvachakam are hymn 7, Tiruvembavai, The Song to our Lady*, and hymn 8, Tiruvammanai, The Sacred Game of Ammanai, both of which were composed in Tiruvannamlai. (*In Adoration of Sakti, Saktiyai Viyandhatu.)

We can deduce from the facts known to us that he was a young man in his twenties at the time he came to Tiruvannmalai, 'a green and pleasant land whose mountain Annamalai is the very form of the Lord.' And where, at Adi Annamalai there is a temple built in his honor. He only paused there on his long pilgrimage to Tillai or Chidambaram, the center of the universe, where Lord Nataraja Siva performs His Cosmic Dance. The Dance, or leela, was an image with a great drawing power for Manikkavachagar and hymn 7, especially, expresses his growing realization that the entire world is imbued with the movement of the divine dance. And with this, his love for God begins to embrace the whole of His creation which is seen as the the Divine nature displayed in all manifestations, Siva Roopam. Earlier, the poet felt guilty because he was attracted by him free. Having come to understand that all is part of the divine Whole, he can speak of those same charms as the accoutrements of the Goddess as in this verse addressed to Lord Siva:

Oh Treasure! Oh Bridegroom of the
Dame
With narrow waist and collyrium
glistening eyes!

(Tiruvembavai, Verse 11)

continued......

Ravi said...

Soorya,
I have read your comments.I do not think that V S Iyer is not well versed in Vedantic school of thought,on the contrary he is quite well versed in it.The shortcoming that I have referred to is on account of his poor knowledge and information about Sri Bhagavan ,his life and teachings-and his dependency on 'hearsay' to form opinions about Bhagavan.On the one hand to insist on the pursuit of philosophical enquiry over and above authority or subjective experience as the supreme way and on the other hand to jump to conclusions without proper data and investigation is baffling to say the least.

Here is an excerpt from V S Iyer,and we can see where he comes from:
"Self is not a thing unknown to any one at any time. Let a man think. As soon as a thought
comes, there must be a knower there before in order to know that he is seeing a wall etc. The Drg
exists before the thought appears or the thing is seen; otherwise neither knowledge nor sensation
could happen. When can you say the Drg is not there? It is always there. Even if you say it can
be reached only at the end of a long path, it is impossible for it to be ever absent even while you
say this. The knower alone makes it possible for you to know anything at all. “Though, thus
quite self-evident, easily known, quite near, forming the self, Brahman appears, to the
unenlightened mind as unknown, very remote, as though he were a separate thing says Sankara's
commentary on Gita. Those who do not look at the seer, the witness, and perceive it is the only
thing that neither comes nor goes, are deluded, and turn outward towards things objective, which
run away. So long as the mind only runs from one object to another, from one idea to another,
impermanent and unreal, they ignore the Atman and are ignorant. Where is the time for them to
think about the Witness?
Mind when active is called mind! When it ceases to be active i.e. sinks back and is only itself,
the essence, the substance or material, it is then called Atman, the Self, the Seer."

The Key difference in approach is that this sort of investigation or enquiry does not involve a 'Yogic Process' of going to the root of thoughts to arrive at Brahman.The Enquiry is into the 'Observed and the Observer' taken together,to 'see' things as they are.This is what he calls as the purely 'Philosophical' approach.It is Iyer's contention that this sort of enquiry does not involve any ascetic withdrawal from the world process,and allows 'Active' participation in the world Process(Vyavaharika sat),whatever be one's calling in that sphere.

He certainly is no novice or someone not fully acquainted with Vedantic Tenets.Quite the contrary,he is quite well versed with AshtAvakra Gita,mAndukya upanishad with GoudapAdA's karika and all that.

Lastly,we cannot make sweeping comments on the monks of R K Mutt!There certainly are Great souls today,earnest seekers and totally dedicated ones at that even today.
Swami Siddheswarananda was a student of V S Iyer and he was a Great devotee of Sri Bhagavan as well.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Soorya/Friends,
"I know this is something which Swami Vivekananda asked to do - doing good. "
This is a vast subject and a wonderful one.Swamiji's position is exactly what The Gita maintains as 'BOdhayantam parasparam',as also what the VedAs have recommended.
Swamiji coined this wonderful motto for the R K Mutt and Mission:
"Atmano Mokshartham Jagad-hitaya Cha" meaning ,"For one's own salvation, and for the good of the world".
The seed for this was sown when Sri Ramakrishna , was talking to devotees on the Vaishnava path,and Narendra was also present.The Master was briefly explaining the tenets of Vaishnava Religion,saying:"This Religion advises its followers to Practise three salient Disciplines:Love of God's name,compassion for all living beings,and service of Devotees".In BengAli ,He said 'nAme Ruchi',and as he said 'jiva dayA',he could not proceed further...He suddenly went into samAdhi and after sometime he continued...'Compassion for all Human beings?How foolish to speak of Compassion!That is absurd.It must not be compassion but service to all.Recognize all as manifestations of God and serve them as such"!The master said in BengAli-"Shiva Jnane Jiva Seva" ('to serve Jiva as Shiva').
Everyone heard the Master's words,but no one except Narendra understood their significance.Narendra left the room and said to some of his friends:"What a wonderful Light I saw today in those words of the Master!How beautifully did he reconcile the simple sweet and refreshing ideal of Devotion with the Knowledge of Vedanta.I shall proclaim to the world at large the Noble Truth that I've heard today".

This is the spirit behind the teachings of Swamiji.It has nothing in common with the 'Do Good' philanthrophic ideal!

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Manikkavachagar in Tiruvannamalai:

Monica Bose:

continues......

The Goddess is not only the Bride of the Lord, She is a part of Him, - ardhasAreeram. The legend of how the Goddess obtained union with Siva was once related by Sri Bhagavan: Parvati won the hand of the Lord after intense tapas. One day she playfully closed the eyes of Parameswara whereupon the whole world fell into turmoil. Parameswara saved the world by opening His third eye. The Parvati realized her fault, and started doing arduous penance and after eons, came at last to Tiruvannamalai -- where she got the approbation of Arunagiriswara, and obtained ardhasAreeram.

Manikkavachagar frequntly mentions ardhasareeram, the hermaphrodite form of the Lord that represents the union of Spirit and Matter, the supreme reconciliation of opposites. In hymn 7, the poet lyrically speaks of immersion in the Divine in terms of diving into the sacred waters of a pool in which appear the insignia of both the God and the Goddess. (verse 13).

Plunge into the swelling pool
Which resembles (our Lady and our
King)
With its fresh dark kuvaLai flowers
And its fresh red lotus blossoms,
With its beautiful flock of birds
And its entwined snakes,
And with the coming of those people
Who wash away their impurity...

(Hymns to the Dancing Siva by Glenn
E. Locum, Heritage Publishers, New Delhi)

G. Vanmikanathan renders this verse
as:

Into this seething deep pool
of lotus abounding sweet water,
which resembles (our Lady and our
King)
by the fresh blue lotus's dark
flowers,
by the blossoms of the fresh red
lotus,
by the families of beautiful
(water) birds,
by the snakes besides,
and by the presence of those
desirous of washing away their
malam (impurity),
let us dive and sport about.

(Pathway to God, Sri Kasi Mutt,
TirupanandAL.)

continued......

Soorya said...

Ravi,

I have nothing to add on V.S Iyer's knowledge of Vedanta, somehow when I read the first chapter of the book at the link you provided, he reminded me very much of a certain group of people who call themselves atheists and run a group called Nirmukta, on the web. The tone of his language was on those lines, quite rude to say the least.
Regarding the idea of doing good and service. There is no doubt about the ideal of the Sri Ramakrishna or Swamiji, for they lived in truth. The consistency and genuity that come from their words is because they have realised the truth, one cannot expect the same from a seeker. The ego is very subtle and as Sri Bhagavan always advised to keep out of organized 'good-doing' because even if one starts with a great ideal, various problems creep up, like clashes with other people's egos, mental distractions about the work to be done etc. Here I do not say that there arent people who cannot do it, but the number is very few - may be a Vivekananda but how often do we have one? Its not easy as it sounds.I know what I am speaking about because I have been an ardent fan of Swamiji and still see from where his words come from, but same time it requires a highly mature soul to carry out doing service and same time make considerable spiritual progress. Service often creates more vasanas and more rebirths, Sri Bhagavan himself has said so.I also know it from experience that it doesnt help.It is somewhat plain that Sri Ramakrishna/Swami Vivekananda's teachings contradict Sri Bhagavan's in that respect. If one asks if it is selfish to be interested in one's own salvation(Swami Vivekananda has commented to that effect), Sri Bhagavan has replied that the dream characters dont exist anymore once the dream ends. He is very firm in this, now if we ascribe a relative existence to the world as long as our minds exist, even then it follows that Sri Bhagavan finds it more beneficial that we find our Self first and divert our whole energies to that. I am not against service or what Sri Ramakrishna's ideal was, but in the days when I used to follow Swamiji's writings(which was before I came to Sri Bhagavan) there used to be an ever increasing sense of frustration, questions like how will my patchwork do the world any good and why doesnt the infinite power mind what happens with the world, and if it doesnt mind wont there be a reason and such. I got my answer only after I came to Sri Bhagavan. And I have been at his feet ever since. I am honestly disappointed with RK mutt because they have been worshipping Sri Ramakrishna than learning what he taught or it's meaning, projecting that he is an avatara.You might know if you are a sincere seeker, that one cannot get to total freedom through organized religion, all boundaries must be thrown away in the end.

Soorya said...

This is from the book,
Conscious Immortality conversations with RAMANA MAHARSHI by Paul Brunton


Q. What is all this talk of "masters" etc. guiding the destinies of the world?.........


A. Had it not been said, "Would these people have diverted their outgoing minds from the world and turned inward to meditate?" That is the purpose of the mention of masters and their hierarchy by the theosophists. By a Rishi sitting in one place, all things can be done by him, if he wills. He can bring on wars or end them. But he knows there is a cosmic and karmic process going on, so he won't interfere unwisely.

Soorya said...

Sri Bhagavan has also commented that "One's own Self realization is the greatest good one can do to the world". Only few people who have tasted the blessedness of the silence can even remotely understand what he means. Even today more than 60 years after he let off his body, the place he lived radiates that blessedness, he just sat there and that was all.

Subramanian. R said...

Manikkavachagar in Tiruvannamalai:

Monica Bose:

For who know Tamizh. this wonderful
verse of Tiruvembavai - 13 is given
below:

பைங்குவளைக் கார்மலரால் செங்கமலப் பைம்போதால்
அங்கம் குருகினத்தால் பின்னும் அரவத்தால்
தங்கள் மலம்கழுவு வார் வந்து சார்தலினால்
எங்கள் பிராட்டியும் எங்கோனும் போன்று இசைந்த
பொங்கும் மடுவில் புகப்பாய்ந்து பாய்ந்துநம்
சங்கம் சிலம்பச் சிலம்பு கலந்துஆர்ப்பப்
கொங்கைகள் பொங்கப் குடையும் புனல்பொங்கப்
பங்கயப் பூம்புனல்பாய்ந் தாடேலோர் எம்பாவாய். 167

'painkuvaLai kAr malar' is the blue lily. 'chen kamalap paimbothAl' means red lotus. Both the flowers are there in Tiruvannamalai pool and they remind the poet Unnamulai and Annamalai!

'angam kuruku inathAl' - the group of little black sparrows. 'aravam'
is red water snake. These two again abound the pool. These two again represent tamas and rajas. By bathing in the pool, one gets removed of their tamas and rajas (malams - impuririties -features and what remains is Suddha Sattvam.

The dark blue lily is associated with the Goddess, the red lotus recalls that Siva, the Divine Fire. The birds evoke Parvati's parrot and in legends, entwined snakes adorn Siva. And we wish that we tool could, with pure heart and humble mind, do what the poet saint bids us - plunge in and play in that refreshing pool of bliss and grace.

continued.......

Soorya said...

Sri Bhagavan has also commented that "One's own Self realization is the greatest good one can do to the world". Only few people who have tasted the blessedness of the silence can even remotely understand what he means. Even today more than 60 years after he let off his body, the place he lived radiates that blessedness, he just sat there and that was all.

Subramanian. R said...

Manikkavachagar in Tiruvannamalai:

Monica Bose:

continues.....

The Lord is also compared to milk, honey, ambrosia, sugar cane juice, while the responsive soul is one that has been transformed from a dry hard stone into ripe fruit that melts at the touch of the Lord. Thus we learn something of the saint's experience of Lord Siva.

See this Verse 5, of Tiru Chadakam, Anubhogasuddhi:

தேனைப் பாலைக் கன்னலின் தெளியை ஒளியைத் தெளிந்தார்தம்
ஊனை உருக்கும் உடையானை உம்ப ரானை வம்பனேன்
தானின் னடியேன் நீயென்னை ஆண்டா யென்றால் அடியேற்குத்
தானுஞ் சிரித்தே யருளலாந் தன்மை யாமென் தன்மையே. 62

Parvati's penance which was completed in Tiruvannamlai is woven into several hymns in Tiruvachakam. (She had a darsan of Siva at Ner Annamalai, a spot from where She had that darshan and sought half of His form. There is a temple for Unnamulai in the girivalam road from where one can see the summit of Arunachala and also an idol in a small temple for Unnamulai. Recently, a kumbhabhishekam was performed for this temple).

In TiruchiRRambla Kovaiyar, it figures in Verse 377 which Manikkavachagar composed in Tiruchuzhi, the birthplace of Sri Bhagavan, in praise of the temple's presiding deity Bhuminathewara, a form of Lord Siva.

continued.....

Anonymous said...

Subramanian,

Your comment regarding the CERN and their trying to find the God particle:
Yes very true :)

Subramanian. R said...

தலைமகனைத் தகவிலன்எனச்
சிலைநுதற் பாங்கி தீங்கு செப்பியது.

26. உழையர் இயற்பழித்தல்
அன்புடை நெஞ்சத்து இவள்பே துற அம் பலத்தடியார்
என்பிடை வந்(து)அமிழ்(து) ஊறநின்(று) ஆடி இருஞ்சுழியல்
தன்பெடை நையத் தகவழிந்(து) அன்னம் சலஞ்சலத்தின்
வன்பெடை மேல்துயி லும்வய லூரன் வரம்பிலனே. ... 377

The verse 377 of Tiru chiRRambala Kovaiyar, is modeled on the very ancient Sangam inner (aham) or love poetry. Deciphering the symbolic images one finds the story of Parvati's suffering at her separation from Lord Siva, after He withdrew from her into the trance of self absorption. This theme evokes the pining of the soul for God, a state known only too well to the poet saint.

Manikkavachagar constantly uses the word aruL, grace, often in association with enlightenment. Divine wisdom is imparted to man through God's grace. Initiation is the spontaneous coming of God's grace to the soul, it is not sought. God's Grace is the remedy of removing mummalam - three impurities, ego, karma and maya. and therefore Grace is the illuminator of man's life. The poet sings:

This day out of grace to me
You rise in my mind like a sun.

(Kovil Tirupadigam, Verse 7.)

Sri Bhagavan too, repeatedly speaks of the working of grace (aruL) on the mind, as in the Akshara Mana Malai. He uses the word 'aruL' 43 times in that long poem.

In Verse 49 of Aksharamana Malai, He says:

Treasure of benign and holy Grace,
found without seeking,
Steady my wandering mind,
O Arunachala!

continued......

Ravi said...

Soorya,
"The consistency and genuity that come from their words is because they have realised the truth, one cannot expect the same from a seeker"
It is only the seeker who needs to do it as Sadhana!.All sAdhana starts with a bhAvana and shraddha only.This would lead to the rest.No such recommendation is needed for the Self Realized ones

"The ego is very subtle and as Sri Bhagavan always advised to keep out of organized 'good-doing' because even if one starts with a great ideal, various problems creep up, like clashes with other people's egos, mental distractions about the work to be done etc"

Why then do they run the Ramanasramam?Where more than one person is there,there are bound to be differences and this is exactly as it should be!On the contrary,it is precisely on account of this ,one may take it as an excellent sadhana.Otherwise,one may simply be imagining that one is free of 'Ego'.The 'Ego' cannot be ferreted out in isolation but has to be observed and 'seen through'in interactions.The 'World' provides ample opportunity for this.

This is one uniform response that I hear from most 'devotees' of Sri Bhagavan.They may be working in an office and may be engaged in all the other activities(Organized)in the world,including running a business,etc but they somehow shrink from the ideal of 'Service'.

If we see how we are consumers of such services and benefit from it,we may also think of giving back in some way however humble it may be.we need not shrink from this sort of parOpakAra as well.It is not necessary that we need to join an organization but certainly we can look out for whatever opportunities that come our way;and there are always plenty of it.

A seeker who is afraid that his 'Ego' will get the better of him(whatever this may mean to one!) can never hope to arrive at Truth.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Soorya,
"One's own Self realization is the greatest good one can do to the world".

There is nothing like "One's own Self realization" .This is what is called egoistic outllook;and the most direct way to confront this is to develop the Bhavana of Service to others as service to the self or God.
We are the world.

We can clearly see how we are in a way unconsciously isolating ourselves in pursuing whatever we are aiming at.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Soorya,
"I know what I am speaking about because I have been an ardent fan of Swamiji and still see from where his words come from, but same time it requires a highly mature soul to carry out doing service and same time make considerable spiritual progress."

Soorya,it is not enough to be a 'Fan' of Swamiji or anyone else.A Fan is one who is swayed by feelings and emotions,and this does not help much.Swamiji himself was no 'fan' of Sri Ramakrishna.He was concerned about Truth and never hesitated to even question and criticize his Master.It is understanding the Teaching that is key and vital.
What Swamiji has recommended is the Vedic way,as he himself emphatically said-'I have taught nothing but the Upanishads'.
He did not claim to have found a 'New path' or approach.
He never preached Ramakrishna!
Nor did Sri Ramakrishna taught something that is not there in the Srutis or Smritis.He only confirmed and reestablished the Truth and the approaches.
I do not think that Sri Bhagavan ever recommended that Self Enquiry is a 'Stand alone' method or approach.It is something that can go on irrespective of what one otherwise may be doing in this work-a-day world.If we can 'do' other things in the world,we need not cut ourselves out from the 'Ideal' of service as well!
Namaskar.

Soorya said...

Ravi,

As you would agree, different seekers have different samskaras and different lives have different purposes. I agree that there are people who find the path of service good, let them follow it.
Regarding how they run Ramanasramam, we have read so many stories of how people fought amongst themselves, starting from the Sarvadhikari on various matters concerning running the ashram. This was right under Bhagavan's nose!So one can imagine how it should be anywhere else. What I am pointing out is not that no one should do any good work which will benefit others, but there is lot of hidden danger in it because the ego can take many forms of identification and growth.Why not attend to the primary evil properly as Sri Bhagavan said, there was a time when I used to feel that all those who worked to keep Ramanasramam as it is, for all of us were indeed great souls...they indeed are, but greater still is attending to one's Self. Sri Bhagavan has quoted this several times.Oh, I just hate this idea of service! Who am I to serve anybody else? I would have the mystery of my existence solved first before anything else.Nature doesnt make a hue and cry about the countless things she does for each creature, then why us?
This ideal of service is for people who just cant see the wider picture, when one sees things apart from one...do I call what I do for my parents or siblings as service? Maybe Sri Ramakrishna was surrounded by such people - perhaps this is a stupid comment from me but thats how I feel.
If you read Sri Nisargadutta Maharaj, his comments about helping the world is same. To the ignorant, it might sound cold but the truth is that there is not the same value or truth attached to this world as one thinks. How would you reconcile Bhagavan's comment that the world is nothing but your thoughts with your idea of service? Swami Vivekananda, the one who advocated this path attained Truth towards the end of his life, though he had glimpses of it thru Sri Ramakrishna. If one reads Sister Nivedita's 'The Master as I saw Him', there is an account of his last days where he says 'I was so wrong, it is all the Mother'.But it is the same Mother who made him work through his samskaras which must have been for Karma Yoga. Sri Ramakrishna himself has said that if he remained in Truth, he wouldnt be able to work in the world - why? Because in the vision of Truth, there is nothing to change in the world, no one who has to be served for want. All this comes when the ego rises.
Regarding the quote on 'one's own Self realization', I know what you mean :) , but those are not my words but Sri Bhagavan's :))
And I hope that settles matters :)

Ravi said...

Soorya,
"I got my answer only after I came to Sri Bhagavan. And I have been at his feet ever since. I am honestly disappointed with RK mutt because they have been worshipping Sri Ramakrishna than learning what he taught or it's meaning, projecting that he is an avatara.You might know if you are a sincere seeker, that one cannot get to total freedom through organized religion, all boundaries must be thrown away in the end".

Swamiji said(and I hope you have read this):
It is vain to preach against the use of symbols, and why should we preach against them? There is no reason why man should not use symbols. They have them in order to represent the ideas signified behind them. This universe is a symbol, in and through which we are trying to grasp the thing signified, which is beyond and behind. The spirit is the goal, and not matter. Forms, images, bells, candles, books, churches, temples, and all holy symbols are very good, very helpful to the growing plant of spirituality, but thus far and no farther. In the test majority of cases, we find that the plant does not grow. It is very good to be born in a church, but it is very bad to die in a church. It is very good to be born within the limits of certain forms that help the little plant of spirituality, but if a man dies within the bounds of these forms, it shows that he has not grown, that there has been no development of the soul."

I do agree that it is not enough to just be 'preaching the avatara 'and be confined to that.This sort of a thing is okay for one's sadhana but certainly it is a misrepresentation when it is made out into the public Domain for mass consumption.Swamiji was clearly against this sort of misrepresentation-turning things into a 'personality cult'.
Yet this seems to be the way of the world!We thus find that there are 'Sai devotees','Ramana Devotees' ,'Ramakrishna Devotees',etc,etc.
This is something that we need to live with and as for ourselves,take whatever is good in these,move on.We need not join any bandwagon,Whatever it be.

Wishing you the Very Best.
Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Soorya,
"If you read Sri Nisargadutta Maharaj, his comments about helping the world is same."

I will request you to take time to read what I have posted.Service is not helping the world.It is to help ourselves.This is the whole point.
Namaskar.

Soorya said...

Ravi,

Yes, got it. Then we should no longer call it 'service',rt? That word just stinks when we are talking of such hi-fi things :P

When I was younger, used to have this sort of guilty feeling when parents or relatives or friends commented on how privileged we or I were and how we are not worthy of it, be it in stature of family,parents, opportunities for education, intelligence,health etc etc. The idea was always to feel like you got something by sheer luck while many other better deserving ones dont have the same. I used to feel guilt, shame etc when I thought about it, but now I know that the so called 'underprivileged' aren't so as the society hypes, everything has two sides. When we have a more developed intellect and a more sophisticated education, we 'pity' those who havent - in truth they can easily access the bliss of the truth while we cannot, for our intellects wont bend :). While we spend a lifetime working on hi-profile corporate jobs, they remain attuned to nature...Since when I became aware of this, I lost the idea of 'service' :))
We are just exchanging our goods, none is richer than the other. And what is called suffering often turns people to look for higher goals in life.
That reminds me, 'The Razor's edge' movie is now uploaded in youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVrY4neM1Zs

Anonymous said...

Soorya: If it is safe to presume that you haven't yet realized the Self and if the only thing that matters to you is to "attend to the Self" or if you truly believe that "One's own Self realization is the greatest good", then why not attend to THAT instead of squandering precious time arguing with Ravi or condemning V.S.Iyer or criticizing R.K.Mutt or expressing your opinions??? :-) Wouldn't Sri Bhagavan have said 'Vanda Velayai Par'...

Ravi said...

Soorya/Friends,
As regards your post on Swami Vivekananda,as if he Realized Truth towards the end of his Life and he more or less annuled what he had advocated earlier(citing Sister Nivedita as well as the Ksheer Bhavani episode).This very question was raised by a devotee in another Forum,and I have responded to that at length.In case you are interested,you may visit this thread:
http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=7008.0

Namaskar.

Soorya said...

Anon,

Yes, thats correct. Thats exactly what I need to do 'Vandha Velai Par' :)
This discussion is one of the spurious offshoots of the ego in it's vain attempts to make sense of things as it stands, it never gives up! :(

Thank you for reminding :))

Ravi,
I will take a look at the link, thank you for the discussion :)

Soorya said...

Ravi,

Apart from Sister Nivedita's book,I am assuming you have read this from Talks with Ramana Maharshi:


D.: Sri Ramakrishna touched Vivekananda and the latter realised
Bliss. Is it possible?

M.: Sri Ramakrishna did not touch all for that purpose. He did not
create Atma. He did not create Realisation. Vivekananda was ripe.
He was anxious to realise. He must have completed the preliminary
course in his past births. Such is possible for ripe persons only.

D.: Can the same miracle be worked for all?

M.: If they are fit. Fitness is the point. A strong man controls the
weaker man. A strong mind controls the weaker mind. That was what happened in the case cited. The effect was only temporary.

Why did Vivekananda not sit quiet? Why did he wander about after
such a miracle? Because the effect was only temporary.

Ravi said...

Soorya,
We need to understand what Sri Bhagavan or any other Great one says.In that conversation what Sri Bhagavan is saying is that 'Self Realization' is something that cannot be given by one to another.
This does not mean that he is questioning Swamiji's attainment,but only pointing out that Self Realization has to be arrived at by Sadhana only.

Swamiji was a multisided personality and can seemingly take opposite positions and affirm that as Truth and Rightly so!
For us,we are like Blind men figuring out the Elephant,and when we get it into our head that it is like a Pillar,we find it hard to understand that the Elephant is much more than that and can be described and approached in many other ways as well.

Thanks very much.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Soorya/Friends,
I have posted the ideal of Service-by Sri kAnchi ParamAchArya, as advocated in Vedic Dharma in this thread.If anyone is interested,you may visit:
http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=7074.0

This has relevance to the discussion we have had here.It addresses the concerns that Soorya has raised.

Namaskar

Anonymous said...

Soorya: There is more than one thing to notice in the "Talk" you copied here -
1. It's a known fact that Sri Munagala Venkataramiah wrote all this in English and not in Tamil, the language in which Sri Bhagavan spoke most often. What's more notable is that Sri Venkataramiah, undoubtedly a great devotee, now & then inserted his own interpretation of what he heard which here & there would have plausibly resulted in clearly deviating from what actually transpired. The case you cite could well have suffered from this excursion, albeit done with right intentions, and thus circumspect.

2. In all matters of conflict, which Sri Bhagavan was only too careful to never get embroiled into lest people get distracted in spicy gossip, the only safe & sensible recourse is to rely on Sri Bhagavan's principal writings (compositions & translations). Everything else, no matter what be the staure of the one who penned it, is preferably consumed with proper cautionary measures in place.

3. Why is the above important? - Because what's said in this "Talk" is equally applicable in the case of all those who claimed to have experienced a wave of peace in Sri Bhagavan's presence. There too, but for a few exceptions, in nearly all cases the effect was temporary. Hence, this being no way different from the episode cited in this "Talk", would you now say this was merely another illustration of a "Stronger Mind controlling a Weaker Mind"?

4. Further, to attribute the statement "Why did Vivekananda not sit quiet? Why did he wander about after such a miracle?" to Sri Bhagavan is highly questionable, for as Sri Bhagavan would have only known it too well that this very thing is equally relevant to the likes of Sankara & Ramanuja, Jnanasambandar & Ramalingar, Krishna & Buddha!!! It's but only specious to claim 'propagation of dharma' to the latter's sojourn while denying it to the former's wandering...

Subramanian. R said...

Manikkavachagar in Tiruvannamalai:

Monica Bose:

continues.....

The legend of the fiery origin of Arunachala, one of the ancient myths, is likewise prominent in Manikkavachakar's hymns. The gods, Vishnu and Brahma could not find the end or the beginning of the blazing pillar of light.

The poet stresses that other-worldly beings cannot truly know the Lord Siva, because one has to have the blessings of an earthly in order to actually appreciate God and to seek Atma Jnana! This world is not only our playground, it is our school as well and the highest attainment is not possible outside it, a truth eloquently expressed in Verse 10 of Tiruvembavai. "His flower laden crown is all the Knowledge's end."

பாதாளம் ஏழினும்கீழ் சொற்கழிவு பாதமலர்
போதார் புனைமுடியும் எல்லாப் பொருள்முடிவே
பேதை ஒருபால் திருமேனி ஒன்று அல்லன்
வேதமுதல் விண்ணோரும் மண்ணும் துதித்தாலும்
ஓத உலவா ஒருதோழன் தொண்டர்உளன்
கோதில் குலத்தான் றன் கோயில் பிணாப்பிள்ளைகாள்
ஏதவன்ஊர் ஏதவன்பேர் ஆர்உற்றார் ஆர்அயலார்
ஏதவரைப் பாடும் பரிசேலார் எம்பாவாய். 164

He is the young Dakshinamurti, in the temple, waiting for us to teach the attainment of Jnana.

Hymn 7 of Tiruvembavai. was inspired by what the poet saw in Tiruvannamalai in the month of Margazhi - December-January, the time of harvest and the renewal of life. The month of Magazhi comes after days obscured by dark clouds and is mythologically the time when the universe re-awakens - it is the dawn of the devas. The mood accordingly is one of vigor, of delight in newness combined with wonder at the revelation of God in nature, as when the rosy Feet of Lord Siva on the earth are described by the poet as 'pink leaf shoots'.

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

Manikkavachagar in Tiruvannamalai:

Monica Bose:

continues....

Manikkavachagar set the scene in TiuppaLLi Ezhucchi at dawn. The bunch of verses are a beauty beyond compare. Of course, these were composed in Tiruperundurai and not in Tiruvannamlai.

On the cock croaking,
Birds have begun to chirp
everywhere,
On the sounding of the seven scale
music pipes,
White conches have begun to sound
everywhere.....

See the imagery. An early morning in a small Siva temple and devotees thronging the temple, 'to wake up'
Siva! As if Siva is asleep!

போற்றியென் வாழ்முத லாகிய பொருளே
புலர்ந்தது பூங்கழற் கிணைதுணை மலர்கொண்
டேற்றிநின் திருமுகத் தெமக்கருள் மலரும்
எழில்நகை கொண்டுநின் திருவடி தொழுகோம்
சேற்றிதழ்க் கமலங்கள் மலரும்தண் வயல்சூழ்
திருப்பெருந் துறை உறை சிவபெருமானே
ஏற்றுயர் கொடியுடை யாய்எனை யுடையாய்
எம்பெரு மான்பள்ளி யெழுந்தருளாயே. 368

அருணண்இந்திரன் திசை அணுகினன் இருள்போய்
அகன்றது உதயம்நின் மலர்த்திரு முகத்தின்
கருனையின் சூரியன் எழவெழ நயனக்
கடிமலர் மலரமற்று அண்ணலங் கண்ணாம்
திரள்நிரை அருள்பதம் முரல்வன இவையோர்
திருப்பெருந் துறையுறை சிவபெருமானே
அருள் நிதி தர வரும் ஆனந்த மலையே
அலைகடலே பள்ளி யெழுந்தருளாயே. 369

கூவின பூங்குயில் கூவின கோழி
குருகுகள் இயம்பின இயம்பின சங்கம்
ஓவின தாரகை ஒளியொளி உதயத்து
ஓருப்படு கின்றது விருப்பொடு நமக்குத்
தேவநற் செறிகழல் தாளிணை காட்டாய்
திருப்பெருந் துறையுறை சிவபெருமானே
யாவரும் அறிவரி யாய்எமக் கெளியாய்
எம்பெரு மான்பள்ளி யெழுந்தருளாயே. 370

இன்னிசை வீணையார் யாழினர் ஒருபால்
இருக்கொடு தோத்திரம் இயம்பினர் ஒருபால்
துன்னிய பிணைமலர்க் கையினர் துவள்கையர் ஒருபால்
தொழுகையர் அழுகையர் துவள்கையர் ஒருபால்
சென்னியில் அஞ்சலி கூப்பினர் ஒருபால்
திருப்பெருந் துறையுறை சிவபெரு மானே
என்னையும் ஆண்டுகொண்டின்னருள் புரியும்
எம்பெரு மான்பள்ளி யெழுந்தருளாயே. 371

பூதங்கள் தோறும்நின் றாய்எனின் அல்லால்
போக்கிலன் வரவிலன் எனநினைப் புலவோர்
கீதங்கள் பாடுதல் ஆடுதல் அல்லால்
கேட்டறி யோம்உனைக் கண்டறி வாரைச்
சீதங்கொள் வயல்திருப் பெருந்துறை மன்னா
சிந்தனைக் கும்அரியாய் எங்கள் முன்வந்து.....

What a pageant! We have come to you, our Lord, to wake you up in this early morning, with two pairs of flowers, two flowers, and our two folded palms. We smile at you and then prostrate to your feet. O the Lord of Tiruperundurai, with ponds full of lotus flowers, O Lord with flagstaff of Bull, please wake up!

The arunan, the red-sky preceding the sunrise has left. Darkness has gone. The sun rises and in your face, grace flows like sunlight! Your eyes open. Two flowery
eyes! The bees make humming sound and come near you to take the honey out of your flowery eyes. O Lord
of Tiruperundurai. O the Hill of Ananda! O the ocean of Compassion, please wake up!

The koel is cooing. The cock is croaking. The white storks are making sweet sounds! The conch shells are blown by the priests in the temple! O Lord show us your anklet wearing feet, which devas would like to touch! O Lord of Tiruperundurai, You are rare to attain for all, but easy for reach for us! O Lord, please wake up.

Some are playing Veena, some Yazh. Some chant Rig Veda. Some sing
Tamizh stotras! Some look at you with their folded hands! Some prostrate before you. Some cry before you out of overflowing love.
Some keep their hands above their
heads and pray! O Lord of Tiruperundurai! You also take over us and rule, please wake up!

continued.....

Soorya said...

Ravi,

Thanks for the link on Kanchi Paramacharya's words, yes it explains the ideal of love rather than service and couldnt agree more! The inclusion of plants and animals into the fold just makes it universal :)

Anon,
Agreed on all 4 points. Especially on the 4th point, Sri Bhagavan cannot say Vivekananda was not a jivanmukta because he didnt sit quiet...as you rightly said there have been Jnani's who moved about teaching or conducting debates like Sri Shankara. In that case, Sri Bhagavan could have intended that there was a further seeking in Swami Vivekananda, which continued even after the death of his Master, Sri Ramakrishna. If one reads his biography and his works, he travelled as a Parivrajaka, a wandering monk through out India - there is one instance where he tries to seek help from another master, but that person inturn tries to learn from him! Even a close reading of his works makes one feel that Swamiji is a very advanced seeker, his poems, his writings all show his thirst for permanent absorption in Shiva. There is an instant in Christine Greenstidel's reminiscences where he says 'if only I could set you free with a touch'- here he is regretting that at the moment he lacks the power of his Master who could send another to nirvikalpa samadhi with a touch.
I am not saying all this for sake of argument - the apparent contradictions in Swami Vivekananda are also due to the fact that he was a gigantic multisided personality who had the ability to approach the Truth from different sides all at the same time but he wasnt always able to reconcile the differences because he himself had to be established in it. To quote Sri Ramakrishna's words in Nikhilananda's biography of Swamiji , the master says soon after Swamiji had an experience of samadhi "Now the mother has shown you all, this treasure will be locked up until you are finished with her work in the world" And the end days of Swamiji speak of this treasure being returned to him...Sri Ramakrishna also says "there will be a very thin veil of Maya cast over his eyes, but it will be too thin that it can be rent any time"
My take is that Swami Vivekananda had taken birth with a purpose, I have wondered why Sri Ramakrishna or the Mother had to lock it(Self Knowledge) up for Swamiji to work in the world...as we discussed there have been jnani's who worked in the world after attaining jivanmukti. But that I guess may remain a mystery.

Arthur Osborne has touched some of these topics regarding Swami Vivekananda in his book, its either in 'Be still it is the wind that sings' or 'For those with little dust' - dont remember which. OF course I dont accept Osborne's judgement but he did have some valid points though - have to admit that.

Swamiji was a 200% genuine person and thats what makes him so dear to a seeker like me, many times when I read him I find a dear friend than a higher spiritual being.

Subramanian. R said...

Manikkavachagar in Tiruvannamalai:

Monica Bose:

The Tivuvembavai gives an entrancing account of a young girl's experience of spiritual love for the Lord. It is told in the framework of a song of awakening, Tiruppalli Ezhucchi.

Elsewhere, Manikkavachagar speaks of dedicated work and service to God as being road to bliss, but for the two hymns composed in Tiruvannamalai he makes use of the
playful girls. In the spirit of the leela, the verses are put in the moujth of innocent carefree children at play.

It was the custom that during Margazhi, very early in the morning, girls went from house to house singing hymns to the Lord and Goddess on their way to a ritual bath. In the poem, a group of maidens come to a house where the young girl inside is apparently still asleep, and they call on her to join them. They are surprised that although she must have heard them sing the praises of Lord Siva she has still not arisen to join them in their worship. In the past, they often heard her speak of her passion for Paramjyoti, the resplendent light, but today she is silent. Goaded by them to sing His praise, she replies that she, a young novice cannot possibly speak of the Infinite and Ineffable Lord, who is present in all Nature and Who lives in the heart of innumerable devotees, for no praise can do Him justice.

continued......

Anonymous said...

Soorya: A couple of points regarding your reference to "contradictions", i.e., why it might not be feasible for us to always reasonably fathom the words & actions of the great ones :-

a. How would you interpret Manikkavachagar's or Tirunavukkarasar's outpourings where they frequently bemoan their apparently lowly stature or their utterly meagre capacities to realize the Lord or the Self?

b. What would you make of Sri Bhagavan's seeming failure to bestow liberation on Palaniswami during the last moments of the latter?

Ravi said...

soorya,
"Even a close reading of his works makes one feel that Swamiji is a very advanced seeker, his poems, his writings all show his thirst for permanent absorption in Shiva"

:))))What was he seeking???
Soorya,I suggest that you have to read your 'friend's' biography and teachings once more!If not teachings,even the poems will do:-)

Why depend on what Swami Nikhilananda wrote.We have Naren's words in this excerpt from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"M: "What did he say after listening to your songs?"
NARENDRA: "He went into samadhi. He said to Ram Babu: 'Who is this boy? How well
he sings!' He asked me to come again."
M: "Where did you see him next?"
NARENDRA: "At Rajmohan's house. The third visit was at Dakshineswar again. During
that visit he went into samadhi and began to praise me as if I were God. He said to me, 'O
Narayana, you have assumed this body for my sake
.' But please don't tell this to anybody
else."
M: "What else did he say?"
NARENDRA: "He said: 'You have assumed this body for my sake. I asked the Divine
Mother, "Mother, unless I enjoy the company of some genuine devotees completely free
from 'woman and gold', how shall I live on earth?" '
Then he said to me, 'You came to me at night woke me up, and said, "Here I am!"' But I did
not know anything of this. I was sound asleep in our Calcutta house."
M: "In other words, you may be both present and absent at the same time. It is like God,
who is both formless and endowed with form."
NARENDRA: "But you must not tell this to anyone else. At Cossipore he transmitted his
power to me."
M: "Didn't it happen when you used to meditate before a lighted fire under a tree at the
Cossipore garden house?"
NARENDRA: "Yes. One day, while meditating, I asked Kali to hold my hand. Kali said to
me, 'When I touched your body I felt something like an electric shock coming to my body.'
"But you must not tell this to anybody here. Give me your promise."
M: "There is a special purpose in his transmission of power to you. He will accomplish
much work through you. One day the Master, wrote on a piece of paper, 'Naren will teach
people.'"
NARENDRA: "But I said to him, 'I won't do any such thing.' Thereupon he said, 'Your very
bones will do it.
'
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
continued...

Ravi said...

Soorya/Friends,
We also have this excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Parable of the homa bird
Pointing to Narendra, the Master said: "You all see this boy. He behaves that way here. A
naughty boy seems very gentle when with his father. But he is quite another person when
he plays in the chandni. Narendra and people of his type belong to the class of the everfree.
They are never entangled in the world. When they grow a little older they feel the
awakening of inner consciousness and go directly toward God. They come to the world
only to teach others
. They never care for anything of the world. They are never attached to
'woman and gold'.
"The Vedas speak of the homa bird. It lives high up in the sky and there it lays its egg. As
soon as the egg is laid it begins to fall; but it is so high up that it continues to fall for many
days. As it falls it hatches, and the chick falls. As the chick falls its eyes open; it grows
wings. As soon as its eyes open, it realizes that it is falling and will be dashed to pieces on
touching the earth. Then it at once shoots up toward the mother bird high in the sky."

At this point Narendra left the room. Kedar, Prankrishna, M., and many others remained.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is quite clear that Swamiji is not another 'seeker' with vasanas to be 'worked out'.

This is what we can reasonably infer from what Sri Ramakrishna had said,and how the Rest of swamiji's Life unfolded exactly as the Master had said.This is indeed well documented.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Soorya/Friends,
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna where the Master talks about the Nitya Siddhas-ever free ones:

Different classes of men
"All men are by no means on the same level. It is said that there are four classes of men: the
bound, the struggling, the liberated, and the ever-free. It is also not a fact that all men have
to practise spiritual discipline. There are the ever-free and those who achieve perfection
through spiritual discipline. Some realize God after much spiritual austerity, and some are
perfect from their very birth. Prahlada is an example of the ever-free.
"Eternally perfect sages like Prahlada also practise meditation and prayer. But they have
realized the fruit, God-vision, even before their spiritual practice. They are like gourds and
pumpkins, which grow fruit first and then flowers
."

Sri Bhagavan refers to the prArabda of avataras as 'Parechcha' prarabda.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Friends,
It is interesting to see how Sri Ramakrishna presents his teachings to suit common understanding.It is also interesting to note that he does not value dumb acceptance and gives the space for the listener to understand and assimilate.Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Different degrees of divine manifestation

SUB-JUDGE: "Sir, does God show more grace to one than to another? If so, He can be
accused of the fault of partiality."

MASTER: "What are you saying? Do you mean to say that the moon and a glow-worm are
the same, though both give light? Iswar Vidyasagar asked me the same question. He said,
'Is it a fact, sir, that God gives more power to one and less to another?'. 'God', I said, 'exists
in every being as the All pervading Spirit. He is in the ant as well as in me. But there are
different manifestations of His Power in different beings. If all are the same, then why have
we come here to see you, attracted by your renown? Have you grown a pair of horns? Oh,
no! It is not that. You have compassion; you have scholarship; there is a greater degree of
these virtues in you than in others. That is the reason you are so well known
.' Don't you see
that there are men who, single-handed, can defeat a hundred persons? Again, one man takes
to his heels in fear of another; you see such a person, too. If there are not different
manifestations of power in different beings, then why did people respect Keshab Sen so
much?

"It is said in the Gita that if a man is respected and honoured by many, whether it be for his
scholarship or his music or his oratory or anything else, then you may know for certain that
he is endowed with a special divine power."

A BRAMO (to the sub-judge): "Why don't you accept what he says?"

MASTER (sharply, to the Brahmo): "What sort of man are you? To accept words without
conviction! Why, that is hypocrisy! I see you are only a counterfeit
."

The Brahmo was much embarrassed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Namaskar.

Soorya said...

Ravi,

You didnt address the quote of Sri Ramakrishna regarding Swamiji (in Nikhilananda's biography) being under Maya when he worked in the world, but went on to quote Sri Ramakrishna talking about the four classes of men.
You also seem to detest it when I said Swamiji probably ran the course of his 'samskaras'! 'Vasanas' doesnt need to mean bad tendencies always! It is clear that Sri Bhagavan didnt think that Swami Vivekananda didnt work for his illumination in past lives,

Devotee: Sri Ramakrishna touched Vivekananda and the latter realised
Bliss. Is it possible?

Maharshi: Sri Ramakrishna did not touch all for that purpose. He did not create Atma. He did not create Realisation. Vivekananda was ripe.
He was anxious to realise. He must have completed the preliminary
course in his past births. Such is possible for ripe persons only.

Here it is clear that Sri Bhagavan doesnt give any hint that Vivekananda was an avatara, in fact he didnt think it about Sri Ramakrishna or himself as well. Each time he says all of them probably did their work in past births. But did people leave him alone yet, no, they had ideas of his being an avatara of Subrahmanya, of Dakshina murthy or Shiva himself. When asked "how did you attain instant liberation without sadhana or a human guru" He replied indifferently "I must have done all the necessary work in my past births" The relative planes of existence, the higher beings etc might all exist at a certain level, but to him all were same compared to being one with the Self.

Swamiji once said "Cant you see I will have to come again, I have fallen in love with mankind" The first half of his life was apparently that of a normal person but for the signals of a spiritual past. He did work through philosophy, atheism etc before he came to Sri Ramakrishna - there was a period of Maya before he experienced oneness in Nirvikalpa, and his own master is quoted to have said that he will be under it again until he completes the work. The point is not about whether he was an avatara/nithyasiddha or if he has to work for his liberation, it is more about his state while he worked in the world. I am only interested in that part for this discussion because that has an important influence on everything he did/talked/taught.

This will be my last post in this topic as it is useless to argue and convince each other which is what is happening here :).

Ravi said...

Friends,
contrary to the widespread view that Sri Ramakrishna touched Narendra and he Realized the Self through Nirvikalpa samadhi(although this incident did happen),this is what Swamiji told Sister Nivedita:
"Let none regret that they were difficult to convince! I fought my Master for six years with the result that I know every inch of the way! Every inch of the way."

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

soorya,
It is elementary to understand that Sri Ramakrishna would not have permitted Swamiji to teach if he did not have self Realization.
Then what is it that he meant in his cryptic way regarding the mother throwing a veil over Naren's eyes.It is simply this:That manifestation on Earth in Bodily form as well as functioning here is not possible without some 'mixture' as it were(Others will call it Karma).The Great ones have to accept these 'limitations' of embodied existence and put up with it.
Sri Bhagavan used to say that 'Body' itself is a disease!(paraphrased).
Swamiji was born for whatever he eventually did.He had to bear the 'cross' of embodied existence and the moment his work was over,he bolted.If you have read his life,this is amply clear.This in no way detracts from the State of Realization which is not an 'individual' attainment.At no point of time he ever had a doubt regarding his true Nature.

you are caught up in the idea of 'one's own realization' and this is the root of your misunderstanding.

Carrying on discussion or avoiding it does not impact the 'ego'.Quite the contrary,one may learn to see through it,and perhaps the discussion can help clear a few cobwebs,if not in toto!

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

soorya,
From the Reminiscences of Manmathanath Ganguli on Swamij,I have posted this here a year or two back.I am posting it here again;it may help our discussion here:
"

After telling me about Sadhu Amulya, Swamiji asked me, "What is that you want to know from me? You may put any question you like." I said, "I have seen your lectures on maya. It has appealed to me. But I have not understood it. Please let me know what is maya. For a while he was silent. Then he said, "If you have anything else to know, you can ask me." I said, "Sir, I have nothing more to ask. If a knower of Brahman like you cannot enlighten me, then it will remain a closed book to me during this life." At this Swamiji began a discourse on maya. He was speaking fast and I followed his words and the logic. By and by, my mind lost the contact of the sense-organs. I experienced a subtle world around me which was much finer than the gross world. I could see with my open eyes the Math, the trees, and everything before me vibrating. If you look above a large fire you can see a vibration. The objects were oscillating and vibrating before my eyes just like that. I was conscious of my uncommon experience and asked myself, "What is this that I see?"

I looked around me and saw there was vibration everywhere. Slowly even Swamiji vanished from my eyes. Even then I could hear his voice, but I did not follow its meaning. Then suddenly I was aware of a vibration within my brain and there was only the void.

Again I could see and hear the Swami and then followed the meaning as well. But my mind was conscious of my ego, and it no more exerted as it did before as I thought that I knew the meaning of maya.

I, who never had the courage to speak before the Swami, considered myself a bubble in the ocean of maya in which the Swami was also another. The difference was lost to me for the moment. The giant personality of the Swami and his great spiritual power and everything seemed to be a coincidence in the ocean that Swamiji called maya. But it was nothing but an undivided chit — the Cosmic Consciousness.

continued....

Ravi said...

soorya,
Reminiscences of Manmathanath Ganguli continued...
Then I said, "Swamiji, you are also in the maya. Your activities of the Math, schools, daridra-narayanaseva (service of God in the poor), hospitals, the Mission — everything is maya. What is the need of all this? You yourself are within the meshes of maya."

At this he smiled and kept quiet for some time. It was through his grace that I considered myself as one with the maya. And now again I entered the little shell of my own self. I saw the Math, the Swami, and everything once again in its true perspective, i.e. the one I was used to have before this experience. A little time before I had spoken with a high pitched voice and that in a piquant manner, and now I was ashamed of having done so. Swamiji and myself were not of the same substance any more and I felt the vast difference.

Swamiji must have known that now I was normal once again. Then, he said. "Yes; you have said aright. I am playing with maya. If you do not like this play of maya, you can go to a deep cave of the Himalayas. There you can get yourself lost in, tapasya (spiritual effort)."

It was high time for lunch and everyone was kept waiting. Swamiji stood up and I fell prostrate at his feel. He was Shiva in person, and I touched his feet.

It was then that I had the desire to have prasada from Swamiji. But I said nothing. Swamiji was pacing in front of the open verandah before the store-room. He went to the room and took an apple and asked for a knife from a Bramhacharin. Slowly he peeled the apple and then cut a slice. He came near me and offered the slice to me. I was gratified. Then he took a piece himself. Then I wished to have anna-prasada from Swamiji. A little later when we were all seated for the midday lunch. Swamiji asked a Bramhacharin to come to him and he said. "Take this cooked rice to Manmatha." It had been offered to Shri Ramakrishna.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding the avataras and Nitya siddhas,I have mentioned to say that they voluntarily 'subject' themselves to Karmic Load in order to function in this work a day world.Sri Ramakrishna used to introduce a Desire for 'water' to bring his mind to the plane of relative consciousness.Contrary to this ,the Bound Jivas do not have this 'Freedom'.

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

(Lesser known temples.)

irum pooLai - (Alangudi) - 612 801.

This temple is again on the bus route from Kumbakonam to Needamangalam. The place is famous for propitiation of Jupiter, by devotees who have inimical transit of Jupiter in their horoscopes. However inside the temple, not the navagraha (guru/Jupiter) is prayed to, but Sri Dakshinamurti is prayed to as Guru.

Siva is called AbhatsahAyar. Uma is called ElavArkuzhali ammai. The tirtham (holy waters) is a tank called Amritha Poigai. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is actually plants called pooLai plants. PooLai is a white flower that is usually made into garlands for Ganesha.

Saint Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 10 of his verses in Canon 2.

******

Ravi said...

soorya,
We may refer to Srimad Bhagavad Gita,Chapter 4 Verse 6.Here is a loose translation :
"Despite of being unborn by nature, the imperishable soul and the Lord of all living beings, I, although situated in transcendence, out of My own do incarnate as the [deluding] covering of My own Self."

This goes to show that what sri Ramakrishna has said is not something of an isolated statement,but that it springs from what is already said in the Gita or elsewhere.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting to note how the Holleran article triggered discusssion on V S Iyer,and onto R K Mutt and onto Swamiji!
V S Iyer ,in no way related to R K Mutt nor did he consider himself a follower or Ramakrishna or Vivekananda.To his credit,he never accepted any fees for teaching the Swamis of R K Mutt.

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Manikkavachagar in Tiruvannamalai:

Monica Bose:

Deepam 2005, Mountain Path:

continues.....

The group then goes on without her to the flower filled tank. They plunge in, play happily and sing their hymns to the Lord Siva and Goddess Parvati. As for the young girl, she remains alone, apart from the rest of the society in her ecstasy of devotional love for the Great King who has enslaved her. She has no need to accompany others to the tank for the ritual bath because she is immersed in the ocean of divine bliss. She perhaps represents the young Parvati, the potential in each soul for fulfillment as the bride who unites with the divine Bridegroom. Or again, she may represent Manikkavachagar himself at the stage of his growing unitive knowledge of the One Reality. (Pathway to God, G. Vanmikanathan.)

The poem is full of light, gone are the dark sentiments of self denigration, despair and desolation that marked the preceding 150 verses. Fittingly, since the poem was written in Tiruvannamalai, where Siva appeared as the divine Fire, the hymn commences with the girls lauding the Infinite Effulgence (Adiyum andhamum illA arut perum jyoti...). And the mystical splendor is recalled in the refrain of each verse, 'Our Lady Fair, Arise!, the call to the sleeping maiden -- also to his listeners through the ages -- to awaken from the dark night of ignorance and inertia into the glorious day of life in Siva. (The Tiruvachakam, G.U. Pope.)

The saint poet composed Hymn 8, the Tiruvammanai, to accompany the game of Ammanai. Six girls sitting in a circle toss little pebbles or cowrie shells into the air and catch them on the back of their hands. Each upward throw aptly communicates the upsurge of rapture, the saint poet feels at his release by Siva from karmic bondage. The refrain of each verse is, 'Sing ye ammmani' for in this way the players can attune themselves to His music, the cosmic harmony, and so become one with Him.

continued.......

Subramanian. R said...

Manikkavachagar in Tiruvannamalai:

Monica Bose:

continues.....

In this Ode, the saint poet retraces his previous incarnations down to the present one in which, in spite of his unworthiness, the Lord in His mercy manifested Himself to him as a Guru who 'instructed him in things unknown and made visible things unseen before.' Then the Lord came and bestowed the supreme illumination on him. Manikkavachagar tells the children 'to sing of Him Who Took Pity on me and, through inconceivable sweet grace appeared as an Effulgent One and was moved with compassion to make His light shine inside my innermost being.'

One is struck by the profound experience from which the hymn emanates. In the Tiruvembavai, one partakes the saint poet's wonderment at the Lord's all pervading presence in Nature, in the Tiruvammanai one senses 'his deep, burning love for the mighty Lord Who, coming as Light set alight his soul.'

In the last verse of Tiruvammanai, he bids us cling to the supreme bliss that in His mercy takes possession of us, so that the bonds of earthly attachment may be severed forever for us.

So ends Manikkavachagar's message to us from Tiruvannamlai, where he sang the Flower Crowed Giver of Bliss, Grace, Light and Love, in words whose truth and beauty will never fade.

Finally, Sadhu Arunachala in Sadhu's Reminiscences of Ramana Maharshi writes:

"One day Sri Bhagavan was telling us that the Tamizh Saint Manikkavachagar's body disappeared in a blaze of light leaving no trace of residue."

Now, as is well known, immediately after Sri Bhagavan's Mahasamadhi, His manifestation was seen as a blazing star in the sky traveling towards the peak of Arunachala and merging into it. When we consider the Hill of Fire and Light and the revelations of the true nature of Manikkavachagar and Sri Bhagavan, our eyes are opened to the essential unity of Arunachala and these two great being who, at the peak of their Realization, merged in the divine Fire of Knowledge and Love.

CONCLUDED.

Anonymous said...

Soorya: In order to gain any glimpse into what you asked "it is more about his state while he worked in the world" isn't it critical to know your state first??? For that matter, to address Sri Bhagavan as a Jnani while still attempting to find a way out of one's own Ajnana is also only a pet belief of ours, not different from every other belief, for there is no way to know whether Sri Bhagavan was a Jnani without discovering that for oneself...

Soorya said...

Anon,

Yes, theoretically you are right :-) Thats why I am now busy finding out who I am and not commenting on this post any longer.

There are reasons why I have a belief that Sri Bhagavan is a Jnani and Swamiji was working at a different plane, and these reasons are linked with personal experience, analysis and intuition - all of which cannot be expressed or proved by words. I know you or anyone else is not obliged to give credit to my experiences on the quest for truth against big names in the spiritual realm. I dont see Sri Bhagavan as a person and as such I dont feel the need to defend him as a Jnani or ajnani, for I didnt come to him by reading books but by an experience of the truth of his words. I know nothing of avataras or nithyasiddhas or the way their prarabda works out and I am not interested either. Sri Bhagavan's words point to something higher and I have had a taste of it, so this trust in him cannot be strictly called a belief in that sense.

Thanks for your comment, love :)

Subramanian. R said...

The Heart of Vedanta:

John Grimes:

Aradhana 2005, Mountain Path:

The heart of Vedanta is the nature of Brahman. The Brahmasutras which string together the central concept of the Upanishads, begin: 'Athato brahma jijnasa', 'Now, therefore, the inquiry into Brahman'. (1.1.1.)
This inquiry is not only intellectual, but is also practical. The trend of Advaitic thought revolves around the theme, 'Atman is Brahman.' (MAndukya 2.7. Ayam atma brahma).

Its approach is self inquiry. Its concern is for individuals, here and now. Its goal is that which is eternally present, immeditate, and accessible.

To reveal the Self is the ultimate quest of Advaita. This experience, Advaita claims, is within universal reach although the same method does not suit everyone. Thus it is not really theory that Advaita advocates, as much as experience. As S. Mayeda has said, 'Philosophy is not his (Sankara's) aim but is rather a vital weapon with which to fulfill this aim, which is to rescue people out of their transmigratory existence. (Upadesa Sahasri, Sankara.) Advaita means the truth of non duality. The prefix 'a' equates with 'non' and applies not only to duality but also to 'isms' and 'systems of thought'. The goal of Advaita is not so much to 'know about the Self' as it is to 'personally experience the Self'.

Literally Advaita Vedanta means: 'Non duality (a-dvaita) is the end/essence/anta of wisdom (veda). Succinctly put, 'The Absolute is Real, the world is non real; the individual human being and the Absolute are not different'. (brahmam satyam, jagan mithya jivo brahmaivanaparah). The insight is simple to state but devastating in its implications. What-is is 'I am That' or to put it another way, 'There is nothing which exists which is not That.'

The distinguishing features of Advaita Vedanta are:

1. The non divergence of the individual human being (Atman) from the Absolute (Brahman).

2. The distinction between the absolute (paramarthika) and relative (vyavaharika) standpoints.

3. The doctrine of ignorance (maya / avidya).

4. The conception of liberation here and now (jivan mukti).

The quintessence of Advaita is its doctrine that the individual human being is not different from the Absolute. This essential identity is expressed in the four great sayings, mahavakyas of the Upanishads.

The Absolute is Consciousness (Ait. 3.1.3.)

The Self is the Absolute (MAndukya 2.7)

That thou art (Chand. 6.8.7)

I am the Absolute (Brh. 1.4.)

The implications of this, are, not that nothing exists (as some aver) but that 'All this, whatsoever, existing in whatever way, is only Brahman (ekam eva advitiyam).

In other words; That in which there is no question of either form or formlessness, which is beyond name and attributes and which transcends even the beyond, That alone I am.

continued......

Ravi said...

soorya,
Yes,Please stick to whatever makes sense to you.I appreciate your point of view.
Wish you the Very Best.
Namaskar.

Chakri said...

Anguttara Nikaya by Thanissaro
Free books at www.sati.org/books
**********************************
IV. 73 A Person of Integrity
**********************************

Monks, a person endowed with these four qualities can be
known as a person of no integrity/ Which four?
"There is the case where a person of no integrity, when
unasked, reveals another person s bad points, to say nothing of
when asked. Furthermore, when asked, when pressed with ques
tions, he is one who speaks of another person s bad points in full &
in detail, without omission, without holding back. Of this person
you may know, This venerable one is a person of no integrity/
"Then again, a person of no integrity, when asked, doesn t
reveal another person s good points, to say nothing of when
unasked. Furthermore, when asked, when pressed with ques
tions, he is one who speaks of another person s good points not
in full, not in detail, with omissions, holding back. Of this person
you may know, This venerable one is a person of no integrity/
"Then again, a person of no integrity, when asked, doesn t
reveal his own bad points, to say nothing of when unasked.
Furthermore, when asked, when pressed with questions, he is
one who speaks of his own bad points not in full, not in detail,
with omissions, holding back. Of this person you may know,
"This venerable one is a person of no integrity/
"Then again, a person of no integrity, when unasked, reveals
his own good points, to say nothing of when asked. Furthermore,
when asked, when pressed with questions, he is one who
speaks of his own good points in full & in detail, without omis
sions, without holding back. Of this person you may know,
This venerable one is a person of no integrity/
"A person endowed with these four qualities can be known
as a person of no integrity/
[contd]

Chakri said...

[contd]
"Now, a person endowed with these four qualities can be
known as a person of integrity/ Which four?
"There is the case where a person of integrity, when asked,
doesn t reveal another person s bad points, to say nothing of when
unasked. Furthermore, when asked, when pressed with questions,
he is one who speaks of another person s bad points not in full,
not in detail, with omissions, holding back. Of this person you
may know, This venerable one is a person of integrity/
"Then again, a person of integrity, when unasked, reveals
another person s good points, to say nothing of when asked.
Fours
Furthermore, when asked, when pressed with questions, he is
one who speaks of another person s good points in full & in
detail, without omissions, without holding back. Of this person
you may know, This venerable one is a person of integrity.
"Then again, a person of integrity, when unasked, reveals
his own bad points, to say nothing of when asked. Furthermore,
when asked, when pressed with questions, he is one who
speaks of his own bad points in full & in detail, without omis
sions, without holding back. Of this person you may know,
This venerable one is a person of integrity.
"Then again, a person of integrity, when asked, doesn t
reveal his own good points, to say nothing of when unasked.
Furthermore, when asked, when pressed with questions, he is
one who speaks of his own good points not in full, not in detail,
with omissions, holding back. Of this person you may know,
This venerable one is a person of integrity.
"A person endowed with these four qualities can be known
as a person of integrity

Subramanian. R said...

The Heart of Vedanta:

John Grimes:

continues.....

The essence of Advaita is simple to state, 'You are That, here and bow.'
To the person who objects: 'But is not my search proof of my having become lost?' The reply is, 'No, it only shows that your believe you are lost. For, what are you in search of? How can you find that which you already are?' Or to put it another way, 'Any seeking is a denial of the presence of that which is sought.' To paraphrase Sankara, 'Why are you looking for the Self or God in city after city, temple after temple? God dwells in the Heart within. Why look in he east and in the west? Don't look for God, look for the Guru. God dwells within you, in truth, you are God. You don't find God, you need to find a Guru who will guide you to yourself.'

Throughout history, individuals have found themselves tossed between the banks of pleasure and pain, gain and loss. They are seemingly alienated from themselves, alienated from others, and alienated from the Absolute. From such a perspective it makes sense to ask how it is possible for a finite, relative, mortal human being to be identical with an Infinite, Immortal Absolute?

Each of the mahavakyas imparts a three-fold knowledge which Advaita
seizes upon as the key to Self Realization.

First, they remove a person's deep seated misconception that they are a limited, imperfect mortal being, and conversely, they reveal that the true Self of each individual is Infinite, ever-free, ever perfect, and immortal.

Second, they remove the deep rooted misconception that the Supreme Reality is remote, hidden and unattainable, and declare that It is immediate, direct, the innermost Self of all.

Third, they reveal that individuals are not separate from the Absolute and yet that each individual is somehow part of the Whole. They declare, unequivocally that, here and now, 'You are That,' without an iota of difference. In other words, Advaita rejects the three types of difference: There is nothing similar to Brahman; there is nothing dissimilar to Brahman; and there is no internal variety.' (Panchadasi, 2.20)

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

The Heart of Vedanta:

John Grimes:

continues.....

While individuals mistakenly superimpose various qualities (e.g. mortal, imperfect, male/female, intelligent/stupid, and so on) upon themselves and the opposite qualities, (e.g. immortal, perfect, omniscient, far away) upon the Absolute, the Advaita teaching resorts to a series of negations - neti, neti - to correct this misunderstanding. Sankara commenting on this says: 'The Absolute can never be properly denoted by any words, including the word Absolue (Atman, Brahman). (Br.up., BG 2.3.6.)

Thus, in the Advaita tradition, though there are passages like 'Everything is Brahman, Brahman is Existence-Absolute, Knowledge-Absolute, Infinitude-Absolute (Taitt. Up. 2.1), The Self is all this (Chand. Up. 7.25.2), 'the world is an unbroken series of perceptions of Brahman and hence nothing else but Brahman,' until one's ignorance is destroyed, such statements will not be correctly understood. Thus, for spiritual aspirants, Advaita emphasizes 'not this, not this', which is not so much to say that appearances are not applicable to the Absolute, as to indicate the impossibility of attributing any conceptualization to It. Brahman is too great for words to adequately describe, or for the finite mind to fathom.
Reality is called a-dvaita to point to the fact that there is nothing with which it can be compared to.

It is the thesis of Advaita that the Self is ever present and yet, one does not realize it. The problem for each individual can be reduced to the simple question of 'knowing' or 'not knowing'. With Vedanta there is actually nothing
to be done. It is only a matter of understanding, but that understanding has to be very accurate and refined.

The purpose of Advaita, of the mahavakyas, of the Guru, of spiritual disciplines, is to kindle
an awakening to this ever present, already established Self. This it does by utilizing the knowledge that appearances cannot manifest of a reality which enables their manifestations.

CONCLUDED.

Anonymous said...

Soorya: All 'reasons', however convincing they may be, serves the only thing that we at least know to some extent - the mind! So is the case with 'Experience, Analysis, Intuition' - all of the mind, by the mind, for the mind. Keeping aside the 'obligation', receiving 'credit to your experiences' from anybody is not the issue here (subtle need?). Theoretically, the only way to 'not' see Sri Bhagavan as a 'Person' is by getting rid of one's own personality, the rest being only for 'mental satisfaction'. What's this 'Higher' thing you talk of? All 'Higher' and "Lower' are for the mind alone (Ribhu Gita?). Tastes can be misleading aand unreliable as they too are adduced by the mind alone, and so is the case of all those comforting mind-based beliefs...

Anonymous said...

Soorya: All 'reasons', however convincing they may be, serve the only thing that we at least know to some extent - the mind! So is the case with 'Experience, Analysis, Intuition' - all of the mind, by the mind, for the mind. Keeping aside the 'obligation', receiving 'credit to your experiences' from anybody is not the issue here (subtle need?). Theoretically, the only way to 'not' see Sri Bhagavan as a 'Person' is by getting rid of one's own personality, the rest being only for 'mental satisfaction'. What's this 'Higher' thing you talk of? All 'Higher' and "Lower' are for the mind alone (Ribhu Gita?). Tastes can be misleading and unreliable as they too are adduced by the mind alone, and so is the case with all those comforting mind-based beliefs...

Subramanian. R said...

KAIVALYAM:

Sanskrit: aloofness; aloneness; isolation.

In the context pf Sri Bhagavan's teachings, this means 'solitude' or the state of Self Realization, where nothing exists apart from the Self. According to the scriptures, it means complete detachment from the material world.

The Yoga Darshana defines it thus: 'When the purity of contemplation equals the purity of the individual, there is isolation.' The Sankhya Darshana sees it as an aloofness from primal Nature (prakruti) and all its transformations. There is no pain or pleasure in this state. The immediate cause for this absolute detachment is discriminating knowledge (viveka).

When the jiva, (the individual soul), merges in its Source, Atman (Absolute Unconditioned Awareness, the Self) in the Heart, and loses itself to become one with It, then THAT ALONE EXISTS. This state of subtle experience is Kaivalyam. (See Muruganar's Preface to Ramana Jnana Bodham.)

In the classical example of a pot existing in space, the pot-space is defined by the pot-shell. When the pot is moved, the pot-space appears to move. But is this the case? Space is all pervasive and thus exists everywhere, in and through the pot-shell also. The pot is a limited form. Therefore it can be moved from here to there. But space is everywhere. So how can space move to and to where?

'The physical space perceived by the mind though the eyes exists in mental space. And where does the concept of space exist? In our absolute unlimited awareness, our Self or Atman says Sri Bhagavan. (Atma Vidya, Verse 5).

The entire cosmos, including space, is pervaded by this Chidakasa, our omnipresent Being and omniscient Knowing. Chidakasa is therefore called, subtler than the subtlest and 'greater than the greatest' since nothing exists apart from it. (Guru Vachaka Kovai, Versed 498.). Furthermore, Sri Bhagavan describes this as 'the infinite expanse of Grace. (Eleven Stanzas, Verse 6).

continued.......

Subramanian. R said...

KAIVALYAM:

continues...

Sri Bhagavan tries to describe, for our sake, what really cannot be described: "The Sage established in the Heart does not know anything as the substratum for the entire universe except the Self. Like the screen which supports the manifestation of the images in a film show, the Self allows the appearance of manifestation and the existence of the entire universe comprising sentient beings and insentient matter in It. (Guru Vachaka Kovai, Verse 450.) Therefore, He can declare, "I am all that exists." He can also say that 'I am' is alone (the state of Kaivalyam), since nothing exists apart from Him.

Sri Bhagavan expresses these ideas in this verse: "Immaculate Arunachala! The entire cosmos comprising of five elements and the manifestations of sentient beings and insentient matter is not apart
from You, the chidakasa, (absolute unlimited awareness). Then how can 'I' exist as an individual self apart from You? When You shine as chidakasa in the Heart, swallowing up everything, how can this 'I' emerge as an individual self? Make me merge into my Source and thus reveal Your real nature (to me)? (Eleven verses, 7.)

When the rising wave identifies with its form it forgets its identity with the ocean. This is regained only when it dissolves back into its source, the ocean.

Confirmation of this comes from Sri Muruganar speaking of his own experience: "Omnipresent Being and Omniscient Knowing, all pervasive state of Siva, (where nothing exists apart), is alone Kaivalyam. Praised be Bhagavan who bestowed this state on this undeserving person." (Ramana Jnana Bodham, Volume 2. Verse 1026.)

CONCLUDED.

Anonymous said...

Ravi/Other Friends,

Just now, I read the views of Ravi and Soorya and Anonymous on VS Iyer, Sw.Vivekananda and others.

While I have no comments on Sri V S Iyer's opinions and views of Sri Ramana, I feel that it is futile comparing saints. If we accept that a saint is one whose ego is completely effaced, then we have to accept that all his actions are directed by the Self. This being the case, we cannot question why one saint (Sri Ramana) never moved out of Tiruvannamalai while another (Sw. Vivekananda) travelled all over America and Europe !

It seems Maurice Frydman once asked Sri Ramana - "Can Jnanis fight with another"?. To which, Sri Ramana replied - "Why not ? In the Mahabharata war, Bhishma and Sri Krishna were on opposite sides !" (I don't remember which book on Sri Ramana I read this exchange).

Swami Vivekananda was utterly devoted to Sri Ramakrishna. Yet when he established the Mayavati Advaita Ashrama in the Himalayas, he wanted atleast in one Ashrama, no worhsip/puja be done.
When he visited the Ashrama, he found that the sannyasins were woshipping a picture of Sri Ramakrishna. It seems he exclaimed - "The old man is here also !". Though he made his displeasure known, he did not order the sannyasins to stop the worship.
One of the sadhus wrote to the Holy Mother Sarada Devi asking her opinion. And it seems that Sarada Devi wrote back saying - "He who is our Master is an Advaitin. All his disciples are Advaitins. Why do you have doubts ?" It was only after that the sadhus stopped the puja. And I believe that till this day, no worship/rituals/puja is done at the Mayavati Ashrama.

Or take Sri Ramana himeslf. One day, after the puja was done at the Mother's temple, the devotees chanted "Na Karmana...". One devotee approached Sri Ramana and asked him - "We are chanting "Na Karmana.." which says in effect that self-realization is not possible by performing karmas. Puja is a karma and we are chanting "Na Karmana...after that !" To which Sri Ramana replied "You are right."

Yet Sri Ramana himself told Major Chadwick that it would be a grand thing if the Sri Chakra puja was done regularly. How can we explain this contradiction ?

Every saint is unique. Not only the same saint seems to be behave in a contradictory fashion at different times.

I think Chalam in the Power of the Presence book has brought out these facts very beautifully.

Thank you,
shiv

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Anon.,

I fully agree with you. Two Brahmajananis can never be compared and they can never be labelled.

Once some devotee asked Sri Bhagavan: A Brahmjanani upon realization should stay put in one place, is it not?

Sri Bhagavan replied: Who said? Did
not Narada a brahmajnani? He was constantly moving in the worlds. Janaka ruled a kingdom. Sri Sankara went to places to establish Maths. By these acts, do their Brahma Jnana get affected? No.

Another devotee asked: Whether even guardian angels of Vishnu, Jaya and Vijaya, can do sins by not permitting Sanaka and others?

Sri Bhagavan said: It happens. They had to take three births as rakshasas because of that. But their underlying brhamajnana were not unaffected. No doubt they had to fight against Rama and Krishna, but these are all 'acts' in plays. That is all.

Another asked: Bhagavan! You have been teaching atma vichara. Whereas Kanchi Mahaswami (who was touring Tiruvannamalai) has been discoursing about the importance of karma marga. How can it be?

Sri Bhagavan said: Why not? He has come with a purpose of re-establishing Hindu dharma. So he has to discourse like that only. If I were to be in his place, I would also have done the same thing!

So also with the leaving of mortal coil by a Jivan Mukta. Manikkavachagar merged with Naraaja in a blazing light. Tiru Jnana Sambandha with his newly married wife merged with sacrificial fire in the marriage mantapam. Ramalinga Swamigal did not leave even a trace of his body on vidheha kaivlyam. Virupaksha Deva became a heap of holy ashes upon leaving the mortal coli. Isanya Jnana Desika disappared from his meditation room.

No two Brahma Jnanis can be compared. Each leaves the mortal coil as per the dictates of the Sakti.

Subramanian. R

Ravi said...

Friends,
There are the Great ones who are thrust into the thick of things and there are Great ones who stay on the periphery of things as it were.One such Great one who kept the 'independence of Solitude' amidst the thick of things is the kAnchi mahAswAmi,who as a Torch bearer of Vedic Dharma had to take stances that were not popular,yet such is the power of a Genuine Sage that even those who did not agree with his viewpoints still had a Healthy respect for him.No less an adversary like E V Ramasami Naicker,of the Dravida kazhagam party,a virulent iconoclaust was also one such person.
I wish to share one such talk by the sage,which reveals his utter unpretentiousness and sagacity.

"Greed is like the fire that grows with every additional input! Once into this, they never know when to stop! It is a never ending endevour!
Not only do they pray for more, but persevere to amass wealth by hook or crook. Religious Dharma of Varna and Ashrama are ignored. Laws of the land go by default. Worldly wise thus become corrupt. They will neither have time nor inclination for Paropakaaram. To divert them on to the right path, we have to tell them to care for the public well being. You will agree that we can not be advising them to take care of their self and their family! We have to tell them to become aware of the need to cut down on desires, their imaginary needs and necessities which are actually avoidable luxuries.
In doing so, it becomes necessary to tell them that it is not enough if they give all attention only to their self and their own families. We have to tell them that they must cut down on their worldly involvement, tighten their morality and pay attention to the fact that they have certain responsibilities as a member of the society in which they live!
But I realize now that even in this rendering advice thus, I have to be more careful. That husband and wife couple who spoke to me at length so sadly but sincerely have woken me up to the fact that knowingly or unknowingly, I have been not very careful. While talking about Paropakaaram, I should have laid a qualifying clause. In not doing so I am culpable for an act of omission! They must have suffered a lot and could normally have cursed me for my act of omission. May be considering my age and deservingly or otherwise my being in the position of a Guru, they might have refrained from using harsher words.
Let me come to their complaint. Their son, as yet a Brahmachari and employed, reading my advices on Paropakaaram it seems, got too involved in those activities. Reportedly, he does not bother for his personal duties towards his own self and his family! It was not clear as to whether he was working satisfactorily in his office or not! All the time, he was involved in, the project to collect a handful of rice from peoples houses every day, known as 'Pidi Arisi Dittam'; collection of vegetable peelings from houses for giving to cattle; then fetching these things to places where they are needed; then distribution of Prasadam-s from the temples to hospitals and jails and so on.

continued....

Ravi said...

Friends,
The kAnchi MahAswAmi on paropakaram continued...
"“He does not even have time for washing his own clothes” said his father, “his mother has to to do all that!”. “He does not buy anything, provisions or vegetables. His father the old man has to do all that,” said the woman. “All the Sun and rain are on his head only. He spends all the money that he earns on this. If we ask him anything he gets violently annoyed. We are afraid that we have lost our son. For fear of losing him physically also, that he may not come home at all, we are keeping quiet as far as possible! Still we are human beings only, is it not so? We are not able to totally go shut on the subject either. You have to advice him suitably for our sake”, they said!
33. Though they were being quite polite, I think of it as a 'tick off'! I do not intend to give long winded talks anymore! Still the number of people who come to meet me and ask for advice are on the increase. So from now onwards, when I tell them that they must do something good for the society, as is done in all the business contracts, I will include a qualifying clause of 'without prejudice to'! That is, “You are to get involved in Paropakaram only 'without prejudice to your duties towards your personal self and family'! I do not know if I will remember this, next time I talk on the subject of Paropakaaram or get carried away by my own exhuberance. But at the least, seeing how those parents are suffering, I feel compelled to tell you this.
34. To expect one's mother to wash ones used clothes is anathema! At old age of one's father, to compell him to take care of the house hold is blasphemy! I never meant that one should launch out on Paropakaaram, while one's own house is not in order! I do not know as to how much damage have I done in how many house holds! Many may not have had the mind to come and complain to me, since it would have been a complaint against me, whom they lovingly think of, as the 'Periyaval' the 'Big Man'! I can see the enormity of my unintended error!
Instead of taking their words as a curse or complaint, I think that I should take it humbly as an 'Upadesa'! Though the general rule is that mostly people are more concerned about feathering their own nest only, some could be pushed in a different direction by my words. So, while advicing that, “If you think of taking care of your own self and your kith and kin as the first priority and that you will take on the task of Paropakaaram after that, it will be something like waiting for the waves of the ocean to subside!”, I should add that, “For Paropakaaram's sake, you should never ignore your own self and family completely either!” That is the 'Upadesa' I get from this experience!"

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Shiv/Friends,
I understand that soorya has found Sri Bhagavan's teachings helpful.
I have only responded to his wondering about what Sri Ramakrishna had meant when he said-""Now the Mother has shown you everything. But this revelation
will remain under lock and key, and I shall keep the key. When you have accomplished the
Mother's work
you will find the treasure again."
This is something that soorya mistook as if Swamiji was not self-Realized and that his teachings were from some lesser 'state',etc.

soorya never tried to discuss Swamiji's teachings,which were pure upanishadic wisdom,unadulterated.It is enough to read his 'Inspired Talks' alone to see what he has taught.

For those interested,I warmly recommend 'Inspired Talks' of Swamiji.

Namaskar.


Anonymous said...

Ravi/Other Friends,

Some time back Ravi had asked for "active participation from readers who are dormant for quite some time!"

I thought I would start the ball rollng.

Referring to Sri Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda it seems once said -"Outwardly he was a bhakta, inwardly a jnani". And then referring to himself, he said in an undertone - "With me, it is the exact opposite".

While only a saint can judge/comment on another saint, I cannot resist asking what was Sri Ramana like ? Was he like Sri Ramakrishna - Outwardly a bhakta and inwardly a jnani or was he like Swamiji - Outwardly a jnani and inwardly a bhakta ?

By the way - Ravi is right. Recently I was going thru the old postings of David (2008, 2009) and there were a lot of participants - to name just a few - Clemens Vargos, Nandu, Ramprax, Broken Yogi (love that name), Bookworm, Scott Fraundorf, Aravind and others.

What happened to these gentleman ? Where have they vanished ?

Thank you,
shiv

Ravi said...

shiv/Friends,
Swami Vivekananda did say that;this is only to speak in layman's terms ,from the point of someone who goes by appearances.All Sages have said that JnAna and Bhakti are in no way different although the Groping mind connects jnAna as knowledge through Intellect and thought,and Bhakti as related to emotion and Feeling.It is like the child that says 'papa is stern and Mama is tender'.Sternness and Tenderness are two aspects of the samething-Love.
Yet,it is fun and interesting to go by appearances as well and I appreciate your 'setting the Ball Rolling'.
My take on this is like this;Instead of taking it as 'out' and 'In' aspects,I would say that the JnAnis are truly chamaleon like!They reflect and Respond to the needs of the Devotees in their presence and spontaneously take that form.
One thing that readily came to my mind(apart from Sri Bhagavan's narration of KaNNappa nAyanAr Story!)was how poonjAji found one day sitting in front of Sri Bhagavan.How someone brought a framed picture of Lord Sri Krishna and How Sri Bhagavan took it in his hands and looked at it with tears streaming from his eyes.
I wish to listen to this story from someone here who may be reading this post.
Thanks very much Shiv.
Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

(Lesser known temples.)

tiru veNNiyoor - (Kovil VeNNi) -
614 403.

This temple is closer to Thanjavur on the way of needA mangalam.

Siva is called VeNNikarumbeswarar.
Uma is called Azhagiya Nayaki. The holy waters are two tanks, Soorya Tirtham and Chandra Tirtham. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is Peepul tree.

Saint Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his
verses in Canon 2 and Saint Tiru Navukkarasar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses, in Canon 5.

*****

Ravi said...

Zee,
Thanks very much for your posts.Only I find the sentences a little too long winding!Like this:
"There is the case where a person of no integrity, when
unasked, reveals another person s bad points, to say nothing of
when asked."
I find this is the case with your other posts from this book.I suppose that PAli permitted this for of expression but English is better understood if broken into simpler sentences.
I find the sentence construction a little convoluted,that it may require some deciphering as regards,who,what ,What not,when and why;One sentence seems to cover the questions & answers!
Trust my comments will draw you in here more often!:-)
Namaskar.

Anonymous said...

Ravi/Other Friends,

Thanks Ravi. When I read your comment - "It is like the child that says 'papa is stern and Mama is tender'.Sternness and Tenderness are two aspects of the samething-Love." - I was reminded of an incident in the life of Sri Ramakrishna and Sarada Devi.

You may have read the story. For those who have not read about this particular incident, I am relating the story below.

Sri Ramakrishna had a young disciple - Baburam who according to Sri Ramakrishna was an Ishwarakoti (an eternally free soul who takes human birth only out of compassion for suffering humanity).

Baburam Maharaj later on took sannyas and was given the name Swami Premananda by Swami Vivekananda.

Sri Ramakrishna had instructed Baburam to take only four chappatis at night for his dinner. One day when he checked with Baburam, he found that he was eating six chappatis.

Sri Ramakrishna was incensed and remonstrated with Sarada Devi -"You are serving him too much food at night. If this continues, what will happen to his spiritual future ?"

Sri Sarada Devi who was normally so gentle and soft spoken took umbrage and replied sharply "Why are you so much worried that I served him two chappatis extra !
You stay out of this. And as for his spiritual future, I am there !".

When I first read this story, I silently cheered for Sarada Devi. I felt that she had firmly put Sri Ramakrishna in his place.

However, when I kept mulling over this story, I realised that Sri Ramakrishna must have known well that eating extra chappatis at night would, in no way, have harmed someone of Baburam Maharaj's spiritual eminence.

All this must have been a device used by Sri Ramakrishna to get Sri Sarada Devi to say publicly - "As for his spiritual future, I am there !".

Yes the Father may at times seem judgemental; always wanting the best for his children; goading them to excel.

The Mother doesn't bother with all this. She says - Don't worry, my child. I am there. Even if you fall, you will fall in my lap only.

The play of the Father and the Mother !

One more story about Baburam Maharaj.

It seems that Sri Ramakrishna could bear to be touched by very few people. Baburam Maharaj was one such person.

When Baburam's Mother once visited Sri Ramakrishna, he asked her -"Your son is very pure. Let him stay with me and serve me."

Baburam's Mother replied - "It is a great blessing for us that you want my son to stay with you and serve you. However, does a Mother give away her son for nothing ?"

Sri Ramakrishna smiled and asked her what she wanted in return.

Baburam's Mother asked for two boons. That none of her children should die before her and that she should always be devoted to God.

Sri Ramakrishna granted her these two boons.

Once, in his middle age, Baburam Maharaj fell very sick and everyone was in despair. Then, he told them - "Why are you so worried ! My mother is still alive." - reminding them of the boon granted to his mother by Sri Ramakrishna.

Thank you,
shiv

Anonymous said...

Shiv/Friends,

By the way - Ravi is right. Recently I was going thru the old postings of David (2008, 2009) and there were a lot of participants - to name just a few - Clemens Vargos, Nandu, Ramprax, Broken Yogi (love that name), Bookworm, Scott Fraundorf, Aravind and others.

What happened to these gentleman ? Where have they vanished ?


Some here would already know that Nandu Narasimhan isn't with us anymore.

As for the rest, let's hope/wish/pray that at least one of those people realise the self. :D

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Anon.,

I am also watching thee blog writers of the past. I am told (not a reliable information) that Nandu is no more! As regards Broken Yogi,
he vociferously argued with me stating (1) Sri Ramana is beyond any religion (2) meat eating shall not affect one's sattvic qualities. He quoted many Western Philosophers, who had reached pinnacle advaitic experience, despite that.

Finally David gave a concluding remark that Sri Bhagavan represents the crowning glory of Hinduism and He cannot be kept away from basic Hindu philosophy. The very fact that He made into Tamizh Viveka Chudamani, Atma Bodham (in Tamzih poetry as also Guru Stuti and Sri Dakshinamurti Stotram, and AthAmlagam. He always had high regard for Sankara though He attained the truth with His own experience.

After this I did not see Broken Yogi's comments. As regards Clemens Vargos, again his absence suddenly
is a mystery.


Subramanian. R.

Ravi said...

Shiv,
Yes,there are many such delightful stories about Holy Mother.One of the Best accounts of her life is by rA Ganapathi -'ammA',in Tamizh;in this rA ganapathi gives more credit to ammA's Rotis than to Sri Ramakrishna's teaching and inspiration,in contributing to the spiritual development of the young lads who later on became what they were!
I fully relish your take on the incident and yes,the Master is quite a Trickster and it is quite likely that this is one such Trick!

swami premananda once said that those who differentiated between her and the Master would never make any spiritual progress; she and the Master were like the two sides of the same coin. In the course of a discussion at Belur Math he said to the devotees: “We have seen that she had a much greater capacity than the Master. She was the embodiment of Power, and how well she controlled it! Sri Ramakrishna could not do so, though he tried. His power became manifest through his frequent samAdhi, which was seen by all. The Mother repeatedly experienced samadhi, but others did not know of it. What a wonderful self-control she exercised!”

Holy Mother was the one who initiated 'Yogin',swami YogAnanda who was a disciple of Sri Ramakrishna- One day a young boy in his teens visiting the temple garden of Rani Rasmani at Dakshineswar had a desire for a flower. The boy took a man passing by for a gardener and asked him to pluck the flower for him. The man, who was none other than Sri Ramakrishna himself, willingly obliged. So the young boy got the flower all right, but in the process, his own self became a ‘flower plant’ to be tended by the great gardener of lives. The name of the boy was Yogindra Nath Chaudhury.The story of Yogin is quite an interesting one too.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

subramanian/Friends,
"Finally David gave a concluding remark that Sri Bhagavan represents the crowning glory of Hinduism and He cannot be kept away from basic Hindu philosophy".

I recall how David did a Balancing act a la Bhagavan in saying that although Bhagavan was not confined by any religion,he would like to think that Bhagavan represented the very Highest in Hinduism(Paraphrased).I suppose this should have satisfied Broken Yogi and made subramanian happy!
I recall with fondness the wonderful devotee Nandu narasimhan,and his constant longing to shift to tiruvannamalai to be in Sri Bhagavan's beloved abode.This prompted me to post the story of Nanda,the Pariah saint.

Namaskar.

Chakri said...

Ravi,
The postings are a cut n paste from the free book links I posted.The original Pali is even more repetitive.

I just posted out of Thankfullness to Friends on this blog who helped me thru their postings and recommendations on this blog in the past three years.

I was also a bit shocked by the Sublime and profound wisdom of Lord Buddha.His words in Pali canon were detailed, wholistic, practical, goal oriented and all topics covered from types of wives to Divinity, how to avoid sleep, how to counter thoughts etc.The profoundness is he covers every permutation combination when he makes statements on any topic.I wish supreme western logicians and philosophers had access to Buddha.Buddha's sublimity of logic disappears the Rational philosophers.

At some point I want to collect most Sutras for Layman.These are the highlight that most of us will be interested.

Also these Nikayas confirm that all the negative views in vogue that Buddhism is anti-Brahminism, un-Vedic, Atheistic, Anatma etc are all totally Rubbish and conclusively condemned in the Suttas.

I am so impressed by these pali Nikayas that some time in future I want to fund a project to translate these Anthologies into Indian languages.They cover all the questions in Ramana Literature comprehensively and in detail.Buddha's style of Sutta line after line shatters the myth and makes you SEE it.

As a side note looking at today's borders of India History and Language is leaning towards the theory that Vedas have come from outside India probably Pakistan,Afghan(Gandhara),Kamboja(Iran) or Samarkand(Central Asia).

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

(Lesser known temples.)

tiru pAndik kodumudi: 638 151.

This is one of the large temples on the banks of Kaveri, in Kongu Nadu (that is, the present Coimbatore and Salem districts).

Siva is called kodumudi nAthar. Uma is called paNmozhi ammai. The holy waters (tirtham) are river Kaveri. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is vanni tree.

The inner sanctum of Siva is quite small. Siva Lingam is also a small once. Sage Agasthya is said to have embraced the Lingam here. One can find the finger marks of the Sage on the Lingam.

There are also shrines for Brahma, Mahavishnu and Hanuman. Under Navagrahas, Saturn (Sani) has got a
separate large idol with crow as his vehicle.

Saint Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 22 of his verses in Canon 2; Saint Tiru Navukkarasar has mentioned this temple in 5 of his verses, in Canon 5. Saint Sundaramurti has mentioned this temple in 10 of his verses, in Canon 7.

Devotees of the area take Kaveri water in pots and walk up to Pazhani for oblations to Pazhani Muruga.

*****

Ravi said...

zee,
I am happy that you have found something of practical and lasting value.Do post whatever you wish to share.
Wish you the Very Best.
Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Vasanas and Sex:

Reverting to Vasanas, it is necessary to be outspoken and not feel delicate
about vasnas of sex as this was frequently raised even by sannysins, before Sri Bhagavan. This vasana of sex was acquired and developed in successive births so that it has become an instinct. It is further developed by more enjoyments and by thinking over them. This vasana is a frailty common to all, except in very rare cases, where it has been weakened by meditation in the previous birth. Aspirants in the spiritual path are much discouraged by these vasanas. Indeed, they doubt if it would at all possible to overcome them. One school of thoughts believes in sublimating this vasana by unremitting devotion to God and rejecting these thoughts as they occur. But most people generally succumb to the weakness and are still faced with the difficulty.

In Ch.XIV of Self Realization, a devotee asks Sri Bhagavan:

There are innumerable purva vasanas. When will they be wiped out?

Bhagavan: The more you withdraw in to the Self the more they pale off and finally by themselves fade out completely. With firm determination dive deep into the Self and merge there. Vichara must be practiced as long as Vasanas issue forth to cause the thoughts to occur.

On another occasion to a question whether distractions due to previous tendencies could be got rid of, Sri Bhagavan replied with emphasis and with a view to carry conviction: 'Yes. Many have done so. Believe it. They did so because they believed they could. Vasanas can be obliterated. It is done by concentrating on that which is free from vasanas and yet their core. (Talks No. 28).

contd.,

(Technique of Maha Yoga - Narayana Iyer.)

Subramanian. R said...

Vasanas and Sex:

continues.....

Since this vasana is a cumulative one, ancient and deep rooted, it is the last to fade. Maha Yoga, when regularly practiced, gradually weakens this Vasana. With the practice of the Step 4, detailed (in the next chapter) and with gradual attenuation of the mind, the power to bring out this thought decreases and later with more practice of the mind abiding in the Heart, these vasanas do not trouble you. Of course, a frequent prayer to eliminate these vasanas and a slight but sincere effort to reject these thoughts or dive into the Heart as soon as they appear are very helpful.

Wise men liken the sadhakas who have not overcome this weakness to filling a leaky vessel with water, for what is required by sadhana is lost by this weakness.

Prayer when daily offered for spiritual advancement, by itself, becomes tapas. The prayer for the eradication of this vasana, apart from its efficacy in the grant of the boon, immediately or later has its psychological effect on the aspirant, particularly when offered earnestly and daily as it creates good vasanas.

Earnest spiritual aspirants if they do not attain their goal in their current birth continue to be spiritual aspirants in the next birth also and the samskaras created now by practice and prayer are carried over as good and substantial assets to the next birth when they will easily find expression in surroundings congenial for the fulfillment of their aspiration.

Incidentally, it may be mentioned that great genuises, political, spiritual, scientific and of other arts are not due to accidents of birth but due to the cumulative effect of their sustained effort, research, practice, and reflection, in their respective fields in their previous births, finding culmination in the current life.

One visitor queried if the vasanas could not be got rid of if the senses are surfeited to satiation point. Sri Bhagavan replied that such indulgence will be like pouring petrol to put out burning fire.

When celibacy was mooted, Sri Bhagavan brushed it aside and said that it was one among the many aids to realization and did not insist on it, meaning that the craving will wear off with the practice of the Yoga.

concluded.

(Technique of Maha Yoga - Narayana Iyer.)

this chapter - concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

The Truth about Bondage:

(From Guru Ramana Vachana Mala: Lakshmana Sarma.)

59. The so called Jiva, who is nothing more than the knot (nexus) between Pure Consciousness and the insentient (body), and who arises, in the body as 'I' is himself bondage and the bound one, both in one.

60. These mad actors that wallow in the misery of relative existence, are merely hallucinations that are variously projected by imagination in the sky of Pure Consciousness, namely the Real Self.

61. Man becomes insignificant Jiva and suffers endless misery, because of his fall from his original fearless nature, like the hair fallen from its place on the head.

62. This ego is (to be regarded as) as a phantom appointed by the God to keep the body intact so long as the current karma is not spent by their fruits being expreinced.

63. Forgetting one's real nature, and getting exiled from the world of the Real Self, the world bound one becomes a prisoner in the body and is swallowed by the serpent Moha.

64. Strange indeed is this: This Maya, namely the mind, is not real; but those that are bitten by this (unreal) serpent are losing their lives.

65. Those that cherish the belief that the body -- which surely converts sweet smelling food into ordure (after eating) -- is the Self, are lower still than the pig.

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

GRACE:

Sri Bhagavan once said" 'What is Grace? It is a function of God.' Like the rays of the sun, Grace is always functioning. There is no moment when it is not. But it is dependent on the receptivity of the individual to partake it. What contributes to the receptivity of Grace in the individual? It is suddha chittam (purified mind), caused by several factors, namely love of fellow feelings and sympathy to human suffering resulting in charitable acts, pilgrimages, bath in holy waters, worship of God by singing praises of Him, japa, pranayama, meditation etc., Like a school boy moving from a lower to a higher class by qualifying himself for it, this chitta suddham of varying nature develops the spirituality of the individual, step by step, and Grace aids him by guiding him. Grace is manifest, when there is sradddha (earnestness). With the increase in bhakti, japa, and meditation, the individual becomes very receptive to Grace. He experiences it, and attributes every good, material and spiritual, to this overflowing Grace. This, in turn induces absolute surrender and immediate rejection of any thought of conscious planning.

One engrossed totally in worldliness is impervious to Grace.

(Though for a number of reasons, if a sadhaka cannot do pilgrimages, worships, japas etc., his continued presence at Guru's feet, will result in the same effect of experiencing the overflowing Grace.)

(A Technique of Maha Yoga - N.R. Narayana Iyer.)

Subramanian. R said...

SLEEP:

Sleep is sometimes considered as an obstacle to sadhana. While a sadhaka should not avoid sleep totally, he can gradually reduce the period to four or five hours without detriment to his health or sadhana. If his activities are totally taken away by
circumstances or age, the normal period of six to eight hours is a little too much. If sadhaka goes to sleep about 8 or 9 in the night and wakes up at about 6, he should start waking up at five and then after a month at four and so on till the maximum of four or five hours is obtained utilizing the early morning hours to meditation, when one being fresh from sleep with the mind and body rested and the world outside is quite still, it is very conducive to sadhana.

Bhagavan Sri Ramakrishna said that the bhogis (debauchees) rogis (sick) and yogis (sadhakas) don't sleep in the night. Remaining on four or five hours sleep daily, he is condensing the full sleep period and and feels none the worse, for it and getting up after the period has a feeling of satiation just as one feels after a full meal. Occasionally when the system does want sleep it is better to let nature have its way. Anyhow, utilizing a good part of the still night for sadhana, the progress is very good and the sadhaka feels greatly encouraged by the result. Indeed every improvement in one's sadhana and every spiritual experience are noticeable mainly in the early morning meditation.

(A Technique of Maha Yoga - N.R. Narayana Iyer.)

Shrini said...

Ravi/Soorya/Friends
The posts about RK Mutt, Ramanashram and mis-quoting of Ramana etc. reminded me of a story related by JK in his dissolution speech.“You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, “What did that man pick up?” “He picked up a piece of Truth,” said the devil. “That is a very bad business for you, then,” said his friend. “Oh, not at all,” the devil replied, “I am going to let him organize it." All institutions founded after a spiritual master attempts to only organise the truth realised by the master. The devotees feel that this organisation will lead them to realisation in an easier way. The only benefit these institutions help is in spreading the master's words which may be beneficial to a true seeker since some of these quotes could open up the windows to the truth. To that extant VS Iyer's words might have opened up one of RK Mutt's swamiji's heart and he would have suggested Iyer's services for his fellow swamiji. We have to understand that there is truth in even a drunkard's words only if we have tuned our antenna to seek it out. For another person the same quote may look ridiculous. To conclude in JK's words - "Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect." Let us not forget that Bhagavan Ramana followed his own path and arrived at the truth.

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Vinayka Chaturthi: 19.12.2012.

For Ganesa who has to be first propitiated, I am writing this at the end of the day.

It was 1922. Sri Bhagavan was living in Virupaksha Cave. One day a potter presented Sri Bhagavan with a small image of Sri Ganesa, the elephant God, to whom worship must first be offered before worshipping the other deities in a temple. He is also known as the Opener. A disciple, Iswara Swami who was present at that time, suggested that both he and Sri Bhagavan should write verses to celebrate the occasion and this is the verse that Sri Bhagavan wrote:

Him, who begot You as a child,
you made into a beggar;
as a child yourself You then lived
everywhere just to support
Your own huge belly; I too am a
child.
You Child God in that niche!
encountering one
Born after You, is your heart made
of stone?
I pray you look at me!

(Sri Bhagavan calls Himself as one born after Ganesa, thus indirectly
refers to Him as Skanda-avatara.)

Let Pillaiyar forgive me for not writing this as the first comment of today.

********

Subramanian. R said...

There are many Ganesa devotees for Pillayiar in Tamizh bhakti literature.

Avvaiyar is the foremost. For that old lady, Ganesa is the chosen deity. Her Vinayakar Ahval is the essence of Yoga Sastra. Ganesa sitting at Mooladhara, the lowermost chakra, pushes the prana of a true Yogi to Sahasrara and thus make the aspirant reach liberation, through
breaking of the crown with prana moving out into Pure
Space.

Nambi Andar Nambi, the author of Tiruthondar Tiuvandadi, which is an elaboration of Sundarmurti Nayana's
Tiruthonda thohai, which lists out the 63 Saiva Saints. With these two works, Sekkizhar composed Periya Puranam and which had a maiden reading in Kanchipuram.

Nambi Andar Nambi once was asked to take the prasadam to Tirunvavlur
Ganesa temple. This young boy then thought that Ganesa would eat the prasadam. Since Ganesa did not eat it first, he cried and begged. Then Ganesa took pity on the boy and extended his trunk and ate the prasadam fully!

The parents at home, did not believe the story. Next day, the father accompanied the boy to test this story. He went and hid behind the pillar and to his surprise, that Ganesa took the food that day also!

Another Ganesa devotee in Tamizh literature is Siuthondar, He was a commander of the army and after conquering Vatapi, returned to the king with all gold and treasures along with an idol of Ganesa. When the king offered gold and treasure, he refused to take them, but only wanted the idol of Vatapi Ganapati.
He left army and became Siva bhakta and prayed to Vatapi Ganapati only.


******

Ravi said...

Shrini,
J K also ended up in the formation of Institutions-Rishi valley School,J K Foundation,etc.Some sort of a consolidation seems inevitable to disseminate the Teachings.Many of these Organizations are not into propoganda but are there to facilitate whoever feels so inspired by the ideals to live them.They are doing great service and are immensely benefitting the common man,irrespective of what others may think of it.
Yes,I agree with you that one can learn from any source but it is equally true that Spiritual Truths have to be learnt from one who knows it first hand and is a man of steady wisdom.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Subramanian/Friends,
I wish to share kAnchi mahAswami's absolutely charming talk on piLLaiyAr(Ganesha)and pAttiyAr(AvviyAr):It is titled, 'Kuzhandai Swamy', that is, 'Baby God', in pages 01 to 16, of Deivathin Kural,Volume 2.

"I am going to talk to you about one old grand mother(called 'paatti', in Tamil). Paatti normally will be seated in one place, with her legs extended. But this Paatti was not like that. Instead of staying in one place, she kept moving from place to place, all over Tamil Nadu. Not sparing even a small, tiny village, she kept on spreading the word of God and a stream of advices on humaneness and good behaviour. Let us leave the Paatti to her circumambulations, and come back to her later.
Let us take a look at this Baby. It is a rolly-polly, well fed baby. Normally one would expect a baby to be running about, playing and prancing, without a second's let up. No. Not this baby. This one does not move easily and remains static in one place. Funny twosome! Baby like, the Paatti is ever active and mobile. Paatti like, the baby is inactive and static. But the baby is the reason for Patti's hectic power of mobility.
Who is this baby? If you ask this question in Tamil, it will sound, "pillay yar?". That will also be the answer, 'pillaiyar'. He is the Pillay or Son. With respect we add '.....ar' and call Him Pillaiyar. If somebody remains seated firmly in one place, we tick him or her off by saying, "why are you sitting on one place like a 'Kallu Pillayar'?" He is the first son of the Parents of the whole world and Universe, Parvathy Parameswara. So we call Him with respect, ' p i l l a i y a r '.
In other states, He is called Ganapathy or Ganesh. For the army of Siva's Bootha Ganas, He is the Pathy or Easar or Chief. So He is Ganapathy or Ganesar. As the Head of the Ganas, He is also known as Vinayaka. Nayak is Head. The prefix 'Vi' is added either to enhance the emphasis or indicate the opposite. So He is the 'vi + nayak = vinayak' to mean, the special chief or 'for whom there is no other chief'! There is nothing in this world that, He cannot bless us with! Especially, He can and does remove all obstacles in one's way. So He is also addressed as 'vigneswarar'. Before embarking on any venture, we invoke His blessings to off-set any likely obstacles enroute! So the first Pooja is to Him, as He is at the top of the 'pecking order'.
He is also known as, 'gajamukha or gajarajan', since He is depicted with the head of an elephant. Elephant is physically very powerful. Still it does not hurt or injure as does a Lion or Tiger. In places like Burma and Kerala, Elephant do the job of tractors and carriers elsewhere. Pillaiyar also does many big jobs as He is very powerful. But He does not show off His powers and never hurts but always does good to us all! Elephant has a sharp intelligence, incisive and analytical brains and a fine memory. So is Pillaiyar the embodyment of Knowledge and Awareness".

Continued...

Ravi said...

KAnchi mahAswami on 'PillaiyAr' continued...
Whatever an Elephant does is a pleasure to watch. It's pendulous walk, it's use of the trunk and mouth while eating, it's ears and small tail flapping and relentlessly chasing away the flies, the way it uses the trunk to lift a flower delicately or a tree trunk effortlessly; is all a trmendous show! It's face is absolute peace. Those small eyes while being observant, seem to have so much Love in them, without any agitation. Out of all animals, we prefer to watch an Elephant. Similarly, out of all human beings in various activities, we prefer to watch a baby. A baby with no bad thoughts, absolutely innocent, happily playing, is again a 'sight for sore eyes'.
Pillaiyar is an elephant and a baby too. One can never have enough of Him. His is the innocent baby heart. Like an elephant He is powerful and brilliant and sharp. More than anything else, such a beauty that can never satiate; a fountain of happiness and a bundle of joy! Opposites and contrdictions coalesce in Him so beautifully naturally! Below the neck, a baby; human. Above the neck an elephant; an animal. In reality He is neither animal nor human; but a Deity! That too, foremost amongst deities.
Despite being a baby, He is the personification of immense, mammoth principles and ideas. In Him a variety of contrasts so beautifully merge; that everything seem to unify. For example, He has a piece of broken tusk in one hand and in the other a sweet 'kozhukkattai', (made of rice powder, kneeded, made in to small receptacles in which a mix of cocnut powder and jaggery is kept, sealed and steamed). This mix is known as 'Poornam', or complete / wholesomeness. So, in one hand is incomplete / half / broken tusk. In the other, complete wholesomeness. The totally complete being is Pillaiyar Himself. He is the 'poornam'. To know 'poornam' is happiness. Another name for happiness is, 'modam or modakam'. This 'kozhukkattai' is known as Modakam too.
Another contrast-Pillaiyar is a baby. He is a Brahmachari or ever celibate. He came as an elephant and drove Valli in to the hands of Subrahmanya, His younger brother, to enable them to get married. Even to-day, when people want to get married, they take Pillaiyar's help; this permanent bachelor! What does it mean? What He may not need in His State, He is willing to provide for the devotees and there by lift us slowly above our wants. As a 'kallu pillaiyar' made of stone, though He is static, He can lift us to the highest level of existance. He did so for 'Avvaiyar', lifting her in one fluent stroke, from South India to Kailasa in the Himalayas".

continued...

Ravi said...

kAnchi mahAswAmi on PillaiyAr continued...
"As we keep looking at Pillaiyar, many such ideas and deep rooted meanings will become apparent. Actually the limitation is our brains and not His infinite abilities or grandeur. They say that, 'kuzhandaiyum deivamum kondadum idaththil', meaning, 'children and gods thrive where they are adored'. The divinity itself has come as a baby, in Pillaiyar. So in Tamil Nadu, which celebrates Him as the Infant-God, He is there in every nook and corner, blessing all and sundry. It is His blessing that the old lady paatti, ran around every village of Tamil Nadu. 'Who is that paatti?', in Tamil will be, 'paatti yar?' She is 'paattiyar' or 'Avvaiyar'. 'Pillaiyar - Avvaiyar', what a combination, as a boon for Tamil Nadu!
There is nobody who has done more social and religious service for Tamil Nadu, as Avvaiyar. If there was, good behaviour and devotion, for thousands of years, in this part of the country, it is undoubtedly due to Avvaiyar. From early child-hood, if good behaviour and devotion to God becomes deep rooted, based on the correct attitude to self and the world; then that attitude and behaviour becomes permanent. There have been many great poets and devotees in the past. But what they wrote or sang were mainly for elders. Avvaiyar did not lack in poetical abilities or devotional intensity. Actually she was too great a Gnani; extremely well grounded in Yoga Sastra. She correctly identified children as the target audience of her advices. So whatever she sang were in the form of 'teachings for children'. When it comes to these matters after all; even grown ups are children only.
She adviced all the children with the same concern that any grand mother has for her grand children. Her love is so great that, even generations later, when it comes to teaching children, 'Aathichudi' comes first. First puja is for Pillaiyar; first reading is Avvaiyar's teachings. For thousands of years, if her words have sustained and flourished; the power of her words is apparent. When you make a sincere true statement, soaked in love; that becomes universally and eternally acceptable. Avvai's words are such that they have retained their charm even after translations into other languages! Amongst us there may be many who have not read the poetry of Kambar, Pugazhendi, Ilango; but there cannot be any who does not know at least one saying of Avvaiyar.
Where did Avvaiyar get such power in to her words? She was also very strong physically. Walking on foot, she went to every small Patty, Thotty, Kukgramam, Puri, Puram, Palli and Halli. Assembled the children and tought them her 'Upadesas'. Where did she get such power in her being? Both power of words and physical power are Pillaiyar's blessings. She was a great devotee of Pillaiyar. It is His blessings that she became an old woman, even in her young age! She wanted to avoid the normal route of falling in love; getting married and begetting children. She got this obstacle to a life of devotion and service removed, by praying to Pillaiyar to give her the looks of an old woman, in her youth!
Pillaiyar, who assisted Subrahmanya Swami to get married; helped this woman to short circuit the very process of growing. When the world is full of people who want to retain their youth even in old age, she asked for and obtained old age, so as to obviate lustful thoughts from the onlooker's minds! Pillaiyar agreed with her views totally. He decided that it is not enough to only retain her devotion. He spun her off as the Ambassador and Minister of Devotion, to catch the young minds of generations yet to come. From a woman with no family, He made her the grand mother of all children, including those yet to be born! She fulfilled her appointed role quite willingly. She spent her life in Pooja and Dhyana of Pillaiyar; and teaching children".

continued...

Ravi said...

kAnchi mahAswAmi on piLLaiyAr continued...
"That old woman went around thousands of years back. I have also done so now. She went around Tamil Nadu. I have included the whole country in my ambit. What I have noticed is that, it is only in Tamil Nadu, that Pillaiyar is seated in every nook and corner, on the river banks, under a tree, with or without a roof! He is as happy under a tin roof, as with elaborate Praharam, Gopuram and Vidhanam. If nothing else, the sky as the roof will do most suffiently, thank you. This is the speciality of Tamil Nadu. Wherever she went, Pillaiyar happily took station there.
Pillaiyar is easily accessible even to very poor people. You can invoke His presence in a spoonful of turmeric or clay or cow-dung! He is easily pleased. He comes and installs Himself, wherever and whenever You call Him, in stone or clay and bless you. You do not have to know elaborate procedures and mantras. Even an unread can get His response anytime, as He is always available 'on call / on line!'. With other devatas, it is said that a proper detailed procedure is adopted. You have to do 'Prana Prathishta' and invoke the 'life force' of that devata, in the statue. No such procedural formalities with Pillaiyar. You think of Him and He is there.
With other Gods, we have to look for a suitable time, have a bath, buy or collect the necessary 'pooja dravyani' and then, go to the temple. Even there, we cannot go to the particular deity directly. Go around the 'prahara', and not go too near either. Pillaiyar is not like that. Whatever time, on the way to the office or school or shop; just happen to raise your head and notice a Pillaiyar there, on the road turning or street corner or under a tree. We do a tap - tap on the head with the closed fists of both hands, and do a 'dobir karanam', in which, we catch both ears with crossed hands and do a 'sit -stand' action. That is all. The pooja is over. We get a not easily definable mix of peace and satisfaction."

continued....

Ravi said...

kAnchi mahAswami on piLLaiyAr continued...
All that He has as a temple is only a room. So without any restraint or differenciation, all are able to approach quite close and have His 'darshan'.
His ease of accessibility seems to contribute to His popularity, with which He is able to receive 'dobir karanam' from His devotees.
There are some special steps which have evolved by tradition. They are, 'sidaru thengai poduvathu', meaning 'to smash a coconut to cause its pieces to scatter in all directions'. Second is to lightly tap on your forehead with closed fists. Third is to hold your ears with hands crossed in front, sit down on your haunches till the knees touch the ground and stand up. This third action is called, 'dobir karanam'. Why do we do this?
There is a Yoga Sastra. It tells us as to how by various exercises, we can make the body supple, control the breath and cause it to become systematic. By this process we gain control over the mind, avoiding negative thoughts and cultivating positive vibrations. The light tapping on the forehead and 'dobir karanam', are part of this process of mind control through Yoga Asanas. These changes are accentuated by faith and sincerity. Avvaiyar who has written widely for the benefit of the children, has also written 'Vinayagar Agaval', full of very deep principles of Yoga Sastra. It is only a small stotra on Pillaiyar but has very subtle esoteric truths. It is worth knowing by heart. It is good to think of Pillaiyar and Avvaiyar simultaneously. Everybody should chant this 'Vinayagar Agaval' at least once every friday, in front of Pillaiyar and submit it to Him".
Everybody belongs to Pillaiyar and Pillaiyar belongs to everyone. He is related to the poor and downtrodden too. Even unread people and poor urchins have a direct access to this 'common man's God'. The 'sidaru thengai' are meant for poor children mainly. They have a right over the pieces of coconut so distributed in His presence. As an infant-God, He is very popular with children. He is also very close to woman folk, as He is very dear to the Mother's instinct in every woman. As Avvai Paatti is a woman, they have a direct special right on this sloka. So, it is in the rightness of things that, woman and children, should all learn this 'Vinayagar Agaval'. You need not worry if the meaning is somewhat difficult and the pronounciation in places is slightly tough. Avvaiyar's words have the power to directly appeal to the inner self. By the time it becomes committed to memory, the import will be known to your heart! That will benefit the family, community, country and the world at large!
Say there is a beautiful box containing gems but whose key has been misplaced. Will we forsake the box for this reason? 'Let the key be found in its time'. In the meanwhile, we will keep the box very safe, 'is it not so? As otherwise, even if the key is found later, there will be no gain! Vinayagar Agawal, is such a box of Yoga Sastra gems. It does not matter if we presently do not have the necessary understanding and grasp. We will keep chanting it. Slowly the inner meanings will reveal itself. Pillaiyar will grant us the 'key' of understanding."

continued...

Ravi said...

kAnchi mahAswAmi on piLLaiyAr continued...
Pillaiyar is good for all, dear to all. The symbols connected to Siva will not be seen in Vishnu Temples / Perumal Koils, such as, Shiv Ling, Ambal and Murugan statues. But Pillaiyar can be seen there too. He is called, 'Thumbikkai Azhvar', there. He is beyond the conflict between the devotees of Siva and Vishnu! That is why, He is accepted by Buddhists and Jainas too. Though He may not be found as preponderate as in Tamil Nadu, He is to be found in every religious kshetra, all over India. For example, in Gokarna on the west coast, as Bala Ganapathi, He is said to have taken the 'Atma Linga' from the hands of Ravana! He is the Vatapi Ganapathy of Middle India and Dundi Vinayagar of Kasi. He is also there in Kedarnath.
Not only in India, but all over the world, from Japan to Mexico, Ganesh statues are reverred and cherished and continues to be discovered in excavations! We should continue to be devoted to such a God, who is popular all over the world. We should offer sugar-cane, Modakam, all types of leaves, fruits, flowers and grass to Him and distribute them to the children. He is the God who came as the child. He should be fed with enough to retain His chubby - rolly - polly - ness. His 'thoppai' that is, tummy, should never be permitted to sag or shrink out of hunger! By 'sidaru thengai', we should make his children-devotees happy. As elders if we thus make children happy, as the son of Easwara, He will enable us too, to enjoy His company as children do.
Growing up always increases responsibilities, care, stress, pressure and tension. We must raise above all this by making this Baby God, a partner in all our endevours and become as happy as He is. He is called, 'sumukha and prasanna vadana' meaning, sweet and pleasant faced. He can easily make us like Him, if we have true devotion. As people of South India, we should consider Him as boon never to be forgotten. If we all make it a habit to visit Ganapathy Temple, chant 'Vinayagar Agaval' and offer 'sidaru thengai'; then the existing thousands of temples may not be sufficient. With the increase in the number of devotees visiting temples, we may have to construct more temples!
There is one peculiar tradition I have heard about when constructing a new temple for Pillaiyar. As per that tradition, instead of making a new statue for the new temple, an old one should be stolen and installed. You may ask as to how, 'when stealing is as it is forbidden, this sort of a tradition could have come into vogue?' The only answer I can think of is that, only when such a threat exists, the already installed ones will be well taken care of. The point to understand is that, 'If we take care of Him, He will not only take care of us, but shower all His blessings on us!' The best for us, our country and the world, is to catch hold of Pillaiyar through Avvaiyar!

Sambhomahadeva.

m said...

Hello everyone,

Nice to see that people have started contributing this blog again.

Zee: Thanks for those interesting posts on buddhism.

best wishes,

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

It is quite nice to read the account of Kanchi Mahaswami on Pillaiyar. I remember to have bought a book titled Vinayakar, with all information culled out from Deivathin Kural on
Vinayakar. As you said, Avvaiyar is one rare case of a lady, who wantonly took up an aged body so that she could move anywhere without fear of ogling eyes of men.
I also remember S.S. Vasan's movie Avvaiyar which has depicted Avvaiyar's life in a reasonably good fashion. Avvaiyar is friendly to both Vinayakar and Subrahmanya.

The story of Avviyar going to Siva's Abode is quite interesting. There was call for Sundaramurti Nayanar from Siva to come back to Kailas, (after finishing his role on this earth) and so he was sent a white elephant to travel skyward and reach Kailash. Sundaramurti started his journey. Cheraman Peruman Nayanar, who was a good friend of Sundaramurti heard this, felt indignant, that his friend is leaving the earth without telling him. He quickly went to his horse, chanted Siva Panchaksharam into its ears and mounted the horse. The horse flew faster than the the white elephant! Both found Avvaiyar down on the earth doing Vinayaka Puja and asked her to accompany them. Avvaiyar coolly said: Let me complete Vinayaka Puja. Going to Kailas can wait. Pillaiyar also assured: "Patti, don't worry. finish the puja first and I will take you to Siva's Abode quickly."
The puja was over. Vinayaka extended his trunk, lifted up the old lady and simply placed her at Kailas! In fact, she had reached earlier than the other two!

I remember my days in Tiruchy, where I had to go to St. Joseph's College only after crossing Manikka
Vinayakar (the foot hill deity). We were living in South Rockfort. I used to pray to Manikka Vinayaka everyday and then only go to my college. On exam days, I used to put a 25 paise coin into the hundi to that great Lord before going to the College. A small fee for seeking His Grace. I remember my mother breaking 108 coconuts when the results came and I was the second rank holder in my M.Sc.

This Great Lord has always been my support all my life till today.

Vezhamukatthu Vinayakanai thozha
VAzhu mikuttu varum!

If Vinayaka, the elephant faced Lord is prayed to,

The life will be full of happiness and splendor!

Subramanian. R

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

(Lesser known temples.)

karur - 639 001.

It is a large temple and the town has also grown into a district head quarters in Tamizh Nadu.

The place has got a great past. ERipatha Nayanar one of the 63 Saints lived here and attained liberation. The famous Pugazh Chozhan also ruled the country from here and finally attained Siva's feet. Another devotee of Siva, Sivakami AndAr, who was making garlands for Siva every day was also born here and attained mukti. Karuvur Thevar, the saint poet who composed many verses (under Canon 10) was also born here.

Siva is called Pasupathi Nathar. The Lingam is slightly slanted towards its left. There are two shrines for Uma. She is called Krupa Nayaki. In one of the shrines she is in tapas.

The holy waters (tirtham) is the river Amaravathi, a branch of Kaveri. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is Plantain Tree.

Saint Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses, in Canon 2.

********

Subramanian. R said...

Life and Times of Lakshmana Sharma,
Who:

Meenkashi Losardi:

Aradhana 2004 - Mountain Path:

Sri Lakshmana Sharma believed that for man to attain the highest level of perfection and happiness of which he is capable, culture, and civilization are necessary and in so far as they serve this end, they are good and praiseworthy. It is when a culture degenerates that the right life values are lost and man loses integrity as well as the happiness which comes from doing what is appropriate.

He believed that Culture has its foundations in the Supreme Spirit and though beyond the world, is the source of man himself. When there is an intimate connection with the Source, then the culture is truly culture, not some hollow pretense that seemingly feeds feels man's spirit. The axiom that Being is the Original Source is the theme of all the Upanishads and of the teachings of all the Sages, the Perfect Ones who have lived and maintained the ancient culture that was character, which is best cultivated through religion successfully by the guidance of great world teachers and sages, who have attained egolessness. The constructive culture necessary for the attainment of the right ends of life could be facilitated by the encouragement of proper conduct, unselfish devotion and a genuine quest for what is real.

It was Sri Bhagavan Himself who said that the best service anyone could do was to strive to become perfect, by becoming free of the ego.


continued,,,,,,,

Subramanian. R said...

Life and Times of Lakshamana Sharma, Who:

continues......

Lakshmana Sharam dedicated his long and varied life to this quest for culture and civilization by harmonizing the teachings of his Sadguru, Sri Ramana Maharshi, to those of The Life Natural, which was the dynamic vision and application of his philosophy and the teachings of the Upanishads and Gita.

He was born in 1879, at Pudukottai, Tamizh Nadu in the same year as Sri Bhagavan. Throughout his childhood he was the weakest and sickliest of four brothers in the family. It was coincidental his bad health as a child helped to develop his career in Nature Cure which allowed him to eventually reach the ripe and vigorous age of 86. In the meantime, he became famous as Father of Indian Naturopathy.

As a boy he studied at the local Intermediate College, at Pudukottai, where he showed an early interest and aptitude for Sanskrit. Later on, his studies sent him first to Tiruchirapalli, where he gained a Bachelor of Arts, and, thereafter to Madras where he completed a Law Degree.

Lakshmana Sharma worked as a civil lawyer for the government and eventually served in Pudukottai, the official Receiver State. At the same time, he was also an active and courageous social reformer. He was committed to the Freedom Movement and discarded wearing all foreign cloth and took up wearing Khadi in 1918. Even though he knew it would cost him his job as a Government employee, in 1920, he presided over a public meeting against the autocracy of the ruler of Pudukottai.

continued.......

Subramanian. R said...

The Life and Times of Lakshmana Sharma: Who:

continues.......


In response to Mahatma Gandhi, call, Sharma gave up his lucrative legal practice, withdrew his children frlm Government schools and admitted them into a national gurukulam. Had it not been for the sudden death of Subahmanya Iyer, who as well as being a great revolutionary and a close associate of Sri V.D. Savarkar was also the head of the Bharadwaja Gurukulam, Lakshmana Sharma would probably ended up with a career as an educationist.

It was after Aiyar's death, that his concern to propagate the ideas of Nature Cure led Sharma to move, with his wife Nagamma and children to Pondicherry where had immediate access to printing press for getting his books on Nature Cure printed. He lived at Pondicherry from 1920-25. It was from there that he continued to develop and promote in Nature Cure and in 1927, he first came to his Guru Sri Ramana Maharshi, and from then on regular visits.

He viewed the Maharshi as the formless, timelss and spaceless
Arunachala, who dances as the 'I' in the Heart and who graciously took form so that we could be removed of the bondage of form. It is with Ramana, the true Guru, what can repose our faith and loyalty, because: "...Ramana is the same as Bhagavad Pada Sri Sankaracharya and Sri Dakshinamurti .....His words are the primary Upanishad, from which the ancient Upanishads themselves derive their authority."

Sharma believed that the teachings of Sri Bhagavan were centered on the Direct Path, the Quest (Maha Yoga) of the Self, and that Ramana did not reach the metaphysical truths of the Vedantas simply for their own sake, but they had an intrinsic value as aids for the understanding and practice of the Quest. It was the Quest itself that was the means of solving problems, because it was the direct path to the natural state, wherein problems
would be resolved through harmony with one Self.

continued.....


Subramanian. R said...

Life and Times of Lakshmna Sharma,
Who:

continues......

Sharma spent more than twenty years of in close association with Sri Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi, and duringthat time made a deep study of His teachings. (During this time, he gave way his desire for non cooperation movements, etc.., but continued to wear khadi and his interest in Nature Cure.)

"Once, sometimes after this writer came into the Holy Presence, Sri Bhagavan asked him: "Have you not read the Ulladu Narpadu?." The writer replied: No, I am unable to understand that Tamizh. The fact was he was altogether unfamiliar with classical Tamzih. Nut then it occurred to him that there was a golden opportunity. So he said, "If Sri Bhagavan teaches me, I shall laern it." So Sri Bhagavan began to teach him. The pupil needed to proceed slowly, one verse at a time, and to make him sure of not forgetting the meaning learnt, he composed verses in Sanskrit embodying the meaning of each verse, before going on to the next. And to make sure of that the meanings have been faithfully rendered by the Sanskrit verses. He submitted each verse to Sri Bhagavan for scrutiny and approval. If the approval was not forthcoming, he recast the verse as often as was necessary until the approval was obtained. In this way, all the verses were gone through and rendered into Sanskrit.

Sharma went on revising his Sanskrit numerous times until he was satisfied that it conformed exactly to the Tamizh original. Sri Bhagavan appreciated his sincere efforts and once remarked that it was like a great tapas for him to go on revising his translation so many times. Sharma eventually published the final version of his Sanskrit verse rendering (which included a rendering of the Supplement - Ulladu Narpadu, Anubandham) under the title Sri Ramana Hridayam. There was also a English prose translation for Sri Ramana Hridayam.

Since there was already a Sanskrit version by Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni, Chinnaswami was not eager to have it printed and published. Sri Bhagavan had to intervene and persuade him to do so.

Maha Yoga, which is one of Sharma's most lucid works, is an insightful exposition of Sri Bhagavan's teachings, and an eloquent, original summary of Vedantic philosophy and the Upanishads. Besides this, Sharma also rendered
selected verses from Muruganar's Guru Vachaka Kovai into both Sanksrit and English under the title Guru Ramana Vachana Mala.

During the years, Muruganar and Lakshmana Sharma developed a close friendship in which they helped each other augment their philosophical understanding of Sri Bhgavan's teachings. Murugnar visited Pudukkottai on many occasions and from the mid 30s whenever Sharma visited Arunachala, while his family members stayed at the Asramam or lodgings, he himself
would live at Palakottu with his close friend, Muruganar. It was during those years that Muruganar instructed Lakshmana Sharma in classical Tamizh so that he was better equipped to understand and translate the teachings of Sri Bhagavan.

continued.....

Ravi said...

Subramanian/Friends,
The Story of avvaiyar reaching Kailasa ahead of sundaramurthy nAyanar on ayyravatha and Cheraman on his steed is a delightful one.This is to show that there are no hierachies or supremacy in the path or approach to God.
The AyyrAvatha represents the path of jnAna and the Steed represents the path of yOga(the Horse stands for Energy or chit aspect).avvaiyar just chose to stick to the simple pooja ,yet overtook the other two! This is what that story brings in such a charming way.
Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Life and Times of Lakshmana Sharma,
Who:

continues.......

Lakshmana Sharma was a regular contributor to The Call Divine, a Bombay monthly magazine published in 1950s, dedicated to the works and teachings of Sri Bhagavan. It was in this magazine that Sharma's last published work, the Ramana ParAvidya Upanishad appeared in monthly installments in the mid 1950s.

Sharma took meticulous care with his writings and repeatedly revised his translations, as he was working on a manuscript. The care that he
exhibited also continued after writing and when he completed one of his works, he would, with his own hands, bind the manuscript into a neat volume. Until the manuscript went to press, he would read and re-read it many times, making corrections and alterations wherever needed. Some of his Sanskrit works were composed as many as thirteen times each time in a different meter.

As well as writing expositions of Sri Bhagavan's teachings, being a loyal freedom fighter, engaged in sadhana, and fulfilling his role as householder. Sharma also devoted his life to Nature Cure. This science, which has its origin in the scriptures of India, fell into general neglect and obscurity until its rebirth in Germany during the 19th century. It was Lakshmana Sharma who discovered its Indian origin and reintroduced Nature Cure to India. He believed that the science of Nature Cure to be liberating as it sought to restore the people the independence and blessings lost due to ignorance.
"...this science -- which is to replace the empirical, blundering pseudo science called Allopathy Medicine - the chief enemy of mankind - is by itself a Liberal Education which gives a moral and intellectual satisfaction that is not to be had elsewhere, except in the ethico-religious philosophy of our ancient sacred lore, called Upanishads or Vedanta." (Practical Nature Cure, Lakshmana Sharma.)

His belief was that the practice of medicine was based on a policy of violence to Life and the living body and thus tended towards the ruin of health. Whereas Nature Cure proceeded on the principle of non violence and thus was harmonized with the laws of health.

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

Life and Times of Lakshnmana Sharma,
Who:

continues.....

Sharma founded The Indian Institute of Natural Therapeutics, was founder of Sharma's Nature Cure Sanatorium, founder-editor The Life Natural (Founded in 1940, but publication stopped in 1995), the only English Nature Cure monthly journal published in India and also the author of Practical Nature Cure. As well as his writings on Nature Cure, Sharma who was renowned as a foremost authority, also conducted training camps and traveled the country giving consultations.

In 1942, Vallabhai Patel, one of the principal leaders of the Freedom Struggle, became seriously ill while staying at Gandhi's Ashram at Wardha. For some months Gandhi himself tried unsuccessfully to treat Patel with Nature Cure methods, but Patel's health continued to fail. Maurice Frydman who was closely associated with Mahatma Gandhi, recommended his friend Lakshmana Sharma as an authority on Nature Cure. Sharma subsequently took the case on, and Patel's health quickly improved.

Lakshmana Sharma's life was always conducted with courage, enthusiasm and a tireless energy. At the advanced age of eighty, he started and completed a monumental treatise
in Sanskrit verse on Vedanta, entitled Vedanta Saram. Even at the age of eighty five he spent some twelve to sixteen hours reading and writing and rarely missed his two mile morning and evening walks.

Some two years before his death, speaking to his friend Brij Mohan Lal, Sharma admitted: ".... I have finished my work in this life. Then why should I drag on? It is better for me to have a new start and this cannot come in the present life."

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

Life and Times of Lakshmana Sharma, Who:

continues......

Step by step, he completed his work. He re-wrote the whole of his magnum opus, Practical Nature Cure, which comprised 720 pages and also completed two monumental works in Sanskrit verse, the above mentioned Vedanta Saram and Svadhena Svasthya Mahavidya. (1500 verses.)
After completing those works, he neatly bound the manuscripts by hand and submitted them for publication. He then said that he definitely had nothing further to do and would like to shed his mortal coil. There was no remorse only a sense of spiritual consummation and he calmly started preparing himself for the inevitable.

His work was over and all the will to live disappeared. From then on his decline started and he longer took interest in the world around him and old age finally began to make his appearance.

Sometime towards the end of February 1965, he stopped eating cereal food. A month later he stopped all solid food and was subsisting on juices alone. Steadily he reduced the quantity of juice and thirteen days before the end he stopped all juice, taking only water. The day before his death, he only had a few spoonfuls of Ganga water. The end came at 6.50 am on May 3, 1965.

"Those who believe in the influence of the positions of the stars and planets of human destiny say that it is difficult to find a more auspicious combination of circumstances. The Sun was moving towards the northern hemisphere (uttarayana), the Moon waxing, the time was just after day break and the preceding star was Krittika. Each of these circumstances they say, has an auspicious significance. (From the Speech Delivered by L. Ramachandra Sharma on May, 15, 1965).

Thus the long and blessed life of a dedicated man ended. He was a person who died in much the same way as he lived, fearlessly and graciously. He learnt to do whatever was appropriate in the moment till eventually whatever he did was auspicious.

CONCLUDED.

Ravi said...

Friends,
Why self enquiry is called 'Direct path'?What is 'Direct'?
Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Three Types of people and three types of Grace:

Sri Bhagavan used to say about three types of sadhakas. One is like a gunpowdeer, catches the upadesa very fast. The other is like coal, it takes time to catch (fire), the Upadesa. The third one is like plantain stem; howevermuch, Upadesa is given, they don't catch
fire.

Manikkavachagar also says the same thing. Siva's Grace is uniform. But siva-bhaktas are of different types. One group is ferocious like a tiger in the forest full of rajo guna. Siva has to hunt them and kill their ego. The middlings are like fish; they are not having any rajas but full of tamas. Siva has to catch them delicately as a fiserhman would fish it out from the sea or river. The third one is well trained horse. For Siva, the work is very easy. A little training, the horse is under his control. He has to only ride on it!

Manikkavchagar says about these three types in PandAya NanmaRai (the Four Ancient Vedas), Verse 3 in Tiruvachakam.

காட்டகத்து வேடன் கடலில் வலைவாணன்
நாட்டிற் பரிப்பாகன் நம்வினையை வீட்டி
அருளும் பெருந்துறையான் அங்கமல பாதம்
மருளுங் கெடநெஞ்சே வாழ்த்து. 630

O Siva, make my karmas burn away and remove my delusion and grace me, O Lord Tiruperundurai!

*******

Ravi said...

subramanian,
What maniikavachakar is describing in the verse is the endearing nature of Lord siva,ever willing to come to the rescue of devotees in unexpected ways:

காட்டகத்து வேடன் கடலில் வலைவாணன்
நாட்டிற் பரிப்பாகன் நம்வினையை வீட்டி
அருளும் பெருந்துறையான் அங்கமல பாதம்
மருளுங் கெடநெஞ்சே வாழ்த்து.

காட்டகத்து வேடன் -He appeared as a hunter in the Forest and blessed
Arjuna with the pAsupata astra.
The story goes that Arjuna, in the fifth year of their exile, Arjuna left the others(pAndavA brothers and draupadhi) and ventured to the Himalayas to do penance to Lord Shiva for the purposes of obtaining the Pasupata, Shiva's personal indefensible weapon. Arjuna's penance stretched over a long period of time until finally Shiva was satisfied and appeared before him as a motley hunter. The hunter challenged Arjuna to a duel, which he accepted, and an intense battle followed, during which Arjuna realized the hunter's true identity. Immediately, Arjuna fell at Shiva's feet, and the Lord subsequently granted Arjuna knowledge of the Pasupata astra.

கடலில் வலைவாணன் :Lord Siva came to the rescue of Fisherfolk when they were terrorized by a shark.This story runs like this:
Lord Siva was once explaining a difficult text in the Vedas to his consort Parvati.Siva asked Parvati to repeat what he was saying just then and she could not as she was in-attentive. As suggested by Siva,she had to make amends for this lapse.She promptly came to earth as a baby left unattended and crying helplessly in a fishermen’s village. The fishermen’s chief was childless and had been praying for one for years. He took this child as a gift from God and adopted her. She grew up into a beautiful girl. It was time for her marriage. Meanwhile Siva was feeling the absence of Paravati. He wanted her back. Siva asked his servant Nandi to go into the sea as a shark, formidable to fishermen. Villagers tried to catch the shark but they failed. They prayed to God to save them from the threat posed by the shark. Siva now appeared as a fisher man. He posed as newcomer and offered to net the shark.

The fishermen first laughed at his offer,as men much stronger could not do it.But the chief gave him a chance. He also promised that if the young man caught the shark, the chief’s daughter would be given in marriage to him. The newcomer dived into the sea and caught the shark effortlessly. The villagers rejoiced. Now Siva and Parvati, assuming their divine forms, showered blessings on the village.
Thereafter, they left for Mount Kailas.

நாட்டிற் பரிப்பாகன் :This story is when Lord siva came to the rescue of Manikkavachakar,as Horse Trainer and filled the stable with Horses(foxes converted as horses!) which later on turned into foxes!

Manikkavachakar will not be referring into types of devotees;he considered himself as the lowliest of the lowly.How can he classify devotees into types!

Namaskar.


Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

Thanks. These are also the inner
meanings. In fact, Siva's fighting over a prey in jungle, when both were hunters, appears in more than one verses in Tiruvachakam. Uma taking birth as fisherman's foster daughter appears in Tiruvilaiyadal Puranam. Of course, Siva appearing as a horse seller - appears both in Tiruvilaiyadal Puranam and Tiruvachakam.

In fact, both Bhima and Arjuna were great Siva bhaktas as per Mahabharata too.

Tiruvilaiyadal Puranam, gives more
than 5 different stories about Maniikkavachagar's life and times.

Thanks once again.

Subramanian.R

Ravi said...

Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

Four classes of men

"Men may be divided into four classes: those bound by the fetters of the world, the seekers
after liberation, the liberated, and the ever-free.

"Among the ever-free we may count sages like Narada. They live in the world for the good
of others, to teach men spiritual truth.

"Those in bondage are sunk in worldliness and forgetful of God. Not even by mistake do
they think of God.
"The seekers after liberation want to free themselves from attachment to the world. Some of
them succeed and others do not.

"The liberated souls, such as the sadhus and mahatmas, are not entangled in the world, in
'woman and gold'. Their minds are free from worldliness. Besides, they always meditate on
the Lotus Feet of God.

"Suppose a net has been cast into a lake to catch fish. Some fish are so clever that they are
never caught in the net. They are like the ever-free. But most of the fish are entangled in the
net. Some of them try to free themselves from it, and they are like those who seek
liberation. But not all the fish that struggle succeed. A very few do jump out of the net,
making a big splash in the water. Then the fishermen shout, 'Look! There goes a big one!'
But most of the fish caught in the net cannot escape, nor do they make any effort to get out.
On the contrary, they burrow into the mud with the net in their mouths and lie there quietly,
thinking, 'We need not fear any more; we are quite safe here.' But the poor things do not
know that the fishermen will drag them out with the net. These are like the men bound to
the world".

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

tirunel veNNai - 607 201.

This is a small temple on the highway of Ulundurpettai to Salem. One has to get down in kumarasthalam and then take a branch road. The temple is dilapidated and needs renovation. There is a house for priest nearby and one has to take his assistance to visit the temple.

Siva is called veNNai appar. Uma is called neela malark kaNNammmai. The tirtham (holy waters) is a tank called veNNai tirtham. The Sthala Viruksham (temple tree) is punnai tree.

Saint Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses in Canon 3.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

EFFORTLESS MEDITATION:

Mountain Path - October-December 2006:

Swami Madhurananda:

Naturally the question arises when we meditate, 'How to remain still?' The eagerness to enter into Stillness is a spontaneous desire and a positive one. Indeed it is in Stillness that there is a hope of entering into supreme freedom - freedom from life's negative emotions, its sense of insecurity and psychological dependencies.

We should bear in mind that if meditation is thought of as an act, then the term 'Effortless Meditation' is contradictory. If meditation is seen as a state of Being, then the word 'effortless' is superfluous. The word 'effortless' is used to to differentiate this meditation from other forms of meditation where effort is involved. Throughout this article the term 'Effortless Meditation' is freely interchanged with 'Stillness', 'Beingness', and 'sense of existence', and is therefore not associated with the achieving of anything whatsoever.

You may ask, what is Effortless Meditation? It is a state of pure spontaneous perception. It is a state of being, of non-doing, where one remains in a complete state of inner rest and ease and therefore does not deliberately direct the mind to any specific object, internal or external.

Effortless Meditation, as such, is quite simple enough though impossible to adequately express. Try as you may, there will always be limitations of language. So it would be better to attempt to understand it without too much analyzing. If you start dissecting language, your mind may tell you 'Something is missing! Something is missing!' or perhaps, 'It is too abstract'. So please try and read the following with openness and love because to understand Effortless Meditation is to receive a precious gift.

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

EFFORTLESS MEDITATION:

Swami Madhurananda:

continues.....

Pointers to Effortless Meditation:

As soon as the question 'How to remain still?' arises, you are already in a state of effortlessness, because the question has come up naturally and unpremeditatedly while you are in a state of pure spontaneous perception, which is of the state of Stillness. The next question may be, 'Is meditation really that simple?' As soon as that question spontaneously arises, you are again in the state of Stillness.

Next, there may be the doubt, 'Oh, this is all humbug, meditation cannot be this simple.' Again this sentence has come up spontaneously of its own accord, and so it is too is the state of Stillness. Another thought-sentence may come. 'I don't want to involve myself in such utterly facile things. I have experimented with such things myriad times and they haven't helped me'. Again, if it is spontaneous, this describes the state of Stillness. So, as soon as the thought arises, if it expresses itself spontaneously was words, again it is the state of Stillness.

Along with each thought-sentence, you may perceive some outside sound or sensation in the body, or you may see some object (if your eyes are open). If these perceptions arise without intention, then all these moments are simply moments of Stillness.

A reaction may come when you hear an intrusive, unexpected and unwanted sound. 'Oh, I am hearing a horrible sound'; however, as soon as your perceive this sentence, you are in the Stillness itself, even though the words you experience are negative. If you are in the state of pure perception, without any conscious effort on your part, you will find that reactions in the form of emotional pain begin to subside. One is advised just to be in the state of natural and spontaneous word-flow, without any struggle. Along with this non violent non resistance, if we allow the perception of sense objects to occur simultaneously with neither acceptance nor rejection, we an slip into the Stillness of Effortless Meditation.

We should not confuse states of pure spontaneous perception with the states of intentional trying to perceive words as letters. Trying to perceive words is not spontaneous, but involves effort. But if it happens naturally, that is all right as this is a lively, spontaneous occurrence rather than a dry, mechanical one. The same thing holds for sensory perceptions. Trying to perceive objects is not spontaneous perception. On the other hand, whatever is perceived without will or intention is spontaneous perception.

To say, 'Be Still' does not mean that you should not engage your mind in thinking when the work demands it. You must. What needs emphasizing is that you not engage your mind in mechanical thinking once yo9u know this 'Stillness'.

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

EFFORTLESS MEDITATION:

continues.......

Moments Conducive to Entering into Effortless Meditation:

As beginners, we may simply allow ourselves the possibility of stumbling into this state of Stillness when we are calm or in a jubilant mood, or even when we are a bit sad or feeling helpless. This suggestion is only for the beginners who may be facing a word that is subjectively loaded and overwhelming because of wrongly associated past habits. To avoid this mental situation, I often suggest to students that they see the words or stimuli which ignite the disturbed state as not the cause; they are mere sound vibrations (in the case of the words) or objective actions, in which we have invested personal negative overtones.

When one sits for meditation, one should not expect too much. It is better to start with an attitude of experimentation and exploration. In fact, one can experiment with meditation anywhere as it is quite a simple endeavor. However, since we are used to reacting or indulging with words, it is better to experiment with meditation while you sit quietly.

When you wake up in the morning, if you find that your mind is calm, know that you have come out of deep sleep, and not out of the normal turmoil of the dream state. In the moment of walking from deep sleep, there is greater possibility of slipping into the effortless state. In this subtle state you need not imagine that perception of objects be ignored. When sages say that Stillness can be experienced in the transition from deep sleep to the waking state, many have understood that to mean that they should not perceive anything. That is not possible. The very fact that you wake up shows that some perception has occurred, otherwise you would still be in deep sleep! You need not bother with trying to know whether you have awakened from deep sleep or from the dream state; this only stirs up the first impulse to thought. While still lying in bed after waking, just give attention to the thoughtless state of awareness.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

EFFORTLESS MEDITATION:

continues......

Misunderstandings about Stillness:

Many think that they can remain still without any noticeable thought patterns at all. There are those who say, 'I may not be in the state of Stillness for a long time, but for a few minutes I did remain without thought.' In truth, they have just just been in a state of extremely subtle thinking without being aware of it, and thereby are deceiving themselves when making such comments.

When you go to walk, you normally proceed without thinking, 'I should be walking, I should be walking'. Yet, the thought of walking is there, otherwise how could you get up to walk? These thoughts come into the force only when something compels you to stop 'walking' in spite of your wish to continue to do so. Therefore, when people say they ceased thinking, it is usually untrue. Actually the thinking that operates in those instances of supposed Stillness is much grosser than what happens, say, in the example of walking. The 'thinking' necessary for walking is not consciously sustained, nor does it create any conflict. In those deluded cases referred to above, conscious and deliberate thinking is happening in a subtle way while the mind is merely unconscious of it. It deludes itself when it says, 'I am not thinking.' If one tries to remain in that category of Stillness one will inevitably generate considerable conflict.

If a person does remain without thinking for a split second, the breath will immediately and effortlessly stop; and body consciousness evaporate. According to Jnanis, if thought stops in its truest sense, in all its subtleties, even for a split second, he person will be enlightened! If this is he case, then it is quite obvious that most people are not free from thinking in their moments of so called Stillness. You can imagine the subtlety of thinking when Sri Ramana Maharshi says, 'Thought is ever present, including in deep sleep. (Talks 307). There is nothing subtler than the thought in the universe. It is the subtlest of the subtlest.

Some people assume Stillness is a state of absent mindedness. This is never true. In the state we call absent mindedness, thinking happens but without our conscious will or intention. So, it is far from the state of dynamic peace, which we are seeking. To be absent minded is not being Still. Our attention has been simply diverted and we are not aware of it. It is interesting to note that nobody can try to be absent minded as the very act becomes a conscious effort!

We should also understand that true Stillness is not the state where you analyze emotions or disturbing situations, and yet remain affected inwardly with the force of such analysis. That state is a very gross form of thinking.

continued......

Subramanian. R said...

EFFORTLESS MEDITATION:

continues.....

The Supreme Simplicity of Effortless Meditation:

If none of the above mentioned states is the effortless state we seek, then we are faced with a very puzzling conundrum, and yes, it is often like this: the simplest things are the most puzzling. When I say, 'Don't focus on anything, just keep your mind off every kind of object, or thinking'. then this seems 'do able'. At least in the beginning this seems achievable, though in actual practice it appears an impossible accomplishment. When you focus on some particular object that excludes everything else, it would at first appear easy. Try looking at the face seriously, it will be like following a mirage. Try looking at the face of your watch exclusively and you will see the dilemma. The watch face will elude your attention in numerous ways no matter how sincerely you try to maintain your concentration. On the
other hand, Effortless Meditation, although, it appears utterly impossible, it is in fact the easiest thing. (Atma Vidya Kirtanam). You may find that this meditation is astonishingly simple, and therefore feel it leads nowhere, and, because you are habituated to the complicated, give up. We take for granted the simplest things. But with persistence you will see that this simple thing, Effortless Meditation, is priceless in everyday life.

continued........

Subramanian. R said...

EFFORTLESS MEDITATION:

Swami Madhurananda:

continues....

Where might We go wrong?

Suppose the thought comes to you. 'How to remain Still?' Well, if you enter into the effortless state, you will experience this thought as a pure unobstructed flow of words. Quite the reverse will happen if you start thinking about how to be Still. You will dwell upon the concept of Stillness as something separate from yourself. We can observe within our self that we do not experience thought as a spontaneous and pure flow of words, but that we want to make use of every thought to attain something. Once we get into the habit of making use of thought, then a reactive mechanism sets in where we can easily become lost in the endless concatenation of thoughts generated by the mind. Men of wisdom use thought and words merely for practical matters.

Generally we don't experience thoughts as a pure word flow like a river that flows towards the ocean in a natural and unhindered passage. Does a river make any effort? Does it stop and think, 'I should move in this direction?' It will be flowing gravitationally in the direction of the least resistance. It never stops and ponders its fate but effortlessly reaches the ocean which is its goal and becomes one with depths. Unlike the river, we can always seem to stop, look back, brood and become lost in every divergent perception. There is no sense of freshness. We are lost either in the past or in the future. Once we can start thinking about goals or achievements (which are uncalled for), we are then in the realm of effort, which is maya or ignorance.

Word-Flow: Mechanical or Spontaneous?

When we are in a true meditative state, we allow words and thoughts to spontaneously and naturally arise, without any effort. Sri Ramana Maharshi says, 'Silence is ever speaking. It is a perennial flow of language. It is interrupted by speaking.' The Maharshi also said regarding japa (recitation), "You are always repeating a mantra automatically. If you are not aware of ajapa (unspoken chant), which is eternally going on, you should take to japa. Japa is made with effort. (Talks 246).

When words come automatically and spontaneously, their nature will be distinctive. They will soothe and refresh. There will be sense of vigor and dynamism. On the other hand, if you mechanically repeat thoughts, you will find they bore and enervate you. You will be happily surprised to discover in Effortless Meditation that this natural word-flow is never boring. However, in the beginning especially when you are restless or carried away by emotions, you will not be able to distinguish mechanically repeated words from those that occur spontaneously. Sometimes you may be assailed by doubts as to whether words are flowing naturally or are being repeated mechanically. Don't try to decide what is right and wrong. If you don't analyze but remain with that very doubt, it puts you in the state of Stillness. One should not be discouraged for with patience we will know in time.

continued.......

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